Boy there is a lot of mudslinging, half truths and egos wrapped up into the egos of others on this thread.
I love listening to a bunch of guys, who do an art derived from Ju Jutsu, dump all over it. One wonders if it's indeed seeing bad Ju Jutsu live or that their own Gosen Jutsu waza suck so much and put such little time and understanding into it?
(Like the countless former TKD folks who come to class and tell me joint locks dont work, right before I make them scream with one. Same as jerks who break into a horsestance after breathing hard and tell you their Ki will prevent you from throwing them.)
It's just as funny as listening to a martial artist who does no form of sparring or free practice tell you how he can rip out a throat, under stress.
Yes there are some clownish stuff in the Ju Jutsu World, just as there are some Judoka ,even high level practicioners of their art and sport have been horribly beaten on the street because they, for whatever reason never developed a few of the differences between doing Randori or Shai and a situation where that right natural posture and gripping his shirt gets you a shin in the balls or leaning over gets a good uppercut or you just never saw that damn knife.
So many of thes arguments are from one extreme to antoher and the examples are usually one extreme to another.
Many times the best approach, the closer truth is somewhere in between.
I am a Martial artist first, Ju Jutsuka 2nd, an Arnisado 3rd and I love elements form Judo and many rts and they have all helpd me in life and times when things got physical.
Since we founded our school 4 years ago (from breaking off from one that was once pretty realistic but that morphed into "Grab my wrist' as the morm and not as a part of a larger whole, that included alot of Randori and IA drills.) we have had 5 outside self defense/fight in the line of duty situations envolving some of our students and 1 of my own.
In 2 of them the other guy went to the hospital, In 1 they aggressor got knocked out on his feet with an elbow sheild and "cape" and the hip motion of a Osoto Gari varient. In each case our guy was fine.
In 2 of them a low level of force was all that was required to convence the aggressor that anymore on their part was going to be detrimental to them. No one needed to be Ogoshied into the ground or the dreaded Mongolian Liver Touch used upon. ;-)
Some of what was used is some of what is being made fun of here.
Granted, we drill waza, we do Kata, the older, 2 or more man version of that, we apply documented viloelnt situations in put ourselves in it and wargme it. We put on gloves and Box, we put on a few more pads and allow feet, elbows, knees and headbutts along with joint locks, throws and groundwork. We grip up and grapple standing and on the ground. Not as much as in Judo dojo but it suits our needs and our broad mission.
You all think Kano would be a little dissappointed by some of the attitudes here? And I say that admitting past idocy on the internet.
Come on, are you all in the art and sport that I most encourage my children to study next to our's?
I do that because of all that Judo can build and, yes give back to Ju Jutsu. I do it for all the bennifits that have nothing to do with fighting.
My favorite historical MA figure is Don F. Draeger and he studied Judo and many other arts, he went to war, he knew combat on many levels and he participated in many of the same kind of training that is dumped on in this thread and he was probably a better Judoka than 95% of those on this site.
So while many get in their camps and load the Bullshit Trebuches, I'm going to start a camp that has room for both views coming together.
Long term goal for the school I co-run is to get some Judo classes, BJJ classes and Combatives classes on the scheadule as well. People can spit but I'm looking to work with Judo Sensei and BJJ Profesors with open minds and we will all be better for it.