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Ryvai
Cichorei Kano
6 posters

    Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Cichorei Kano
    Cichorei Kano


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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Cichorei Kano Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:45 am

    Kaiten-harai-goshi, i.e. harai-goshi with mawari-komi entry:


    Ryvai
    Ryvai


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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Ryvai Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:15 am

    Nice! Does Kaiten mean rotating? I totaly expected to see harai-goshi with tori following to the mat Smile
    Ben Reinhardt
    Ben Reinhardt


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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Ben Reinhardt Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:04 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:Kaiten-harai-goshi, i.e. harai-goshi with mawari-komi entry:



    Nice entry for Ashi Guruma...
    Cichorei Kano
    Cichorei Kano


    Posts : 1948
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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Cichorei Kano Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:06 pm

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:Kaiten-harai-goshi, i.e. harai-goshi with mawari-komi entry:



    Nice entry for Ashi Guruma...

    Why did someone vote you down ?? Shocked 
    Ben Reinhardt
    Ben Reinhardt


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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Ben Reinhardt Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:57 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:Kaiten-harai-goshi, i.e. harai-goshi with mawari-komi entry:



    Nice entry for Ashi Guruma...

    Why did someone vote you down ?? Shocked 
    I have no idea...I was just carrying on the grand Judo Forum tradition...must be a noob to the site ?

    If someone would like to have polemic debate about it, lead on !

    afulldeck
    afulldeck


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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by afulldeck Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:03 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:Kaiten-harai-goshi, i.e. harai-goshi with mawari-komi entry:



    Nice entry for Ashi Guruma...

    Why did someone vote you down ?? Shocked 
    I have no idea...I was just carrying on the grand Judo Forum tradition...must be a noob to the site ?

    If someone would like to have polemic debate about it, lead on !

    Well to counteract the negative karma you received this morning, I just voted you up :-)
    Ben Reinhardt
    Ben Reinhardt


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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Ben Reinhardt Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:04 am

    afulldeck wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:Kaiten-harai-goshi, i.e. harai-goshi with mawari-komi entry:



    Nice entry for Ashi Guruma...

    Why did someone vote you down ?? Shocked 
    I have no idea...I was just carrying on the grand Judo Forum tradition...must be a noob to the site ?

    If someone would like to have polemic debate about it, lead on !

    Well to counteract the negative karma you received this morning, I just voted you up :-)

    Keep upvoting, I need all the help I can get.

    So, Harai Goshi or Ashi Guruma? Which time ?

    Cichorei Kano
    Cichorei Kano


    Posts : 1948
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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Cichorei Kano Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:15 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    So, Harai Goshi or Ashi Guruma? Which time ?

    Oh, yes, it's of course much more ashi-guruma than that it is harai-goshi. Usually when I start such a thread I simply take over the original title in order to avoid that people think I am just being critical or saracastic.

    The leg doesn't do any swiping and rather blocks uke's leg. Strangely though he just pulls, whereas ashi-guruma ideally starts from a pushing movement, which then prompts me to ask in how far his throw is going to be successful in competition. His masters his mawari-komi so I don't doubt he will frequently be able to come in that, but how many of these attempts will lead to scoring is another matter. Mostly, in most realistic scenarios, ashi-guruma will be performed with a leg that is wrapped around uke's leg. The simply blocking variant is a valid option but not easy to pull off against an opponent of equal or better level.
    Stevens
    Stevens


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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Stevens Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:20 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    afulldeck wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:Kaiten-harai-goshi, i.e. harai-goshi with mawari-komi entry:



    Nice entry for Ashi Guruma...

    Why did someone vote you down ?? Shocked 
    I have no idea...I was just carrying on the grand Judo Forum tradition...must be a noob to the site ?

    If someone would like to have polemic debate about it, lead on !

    Well to counteract the negative karma you received this morning, I just voted you up :-)

    Keep upvoting, I need all the help I can get.

    So, Harai Goshi or Ashi Guruma? Which time ?


    I say both are Harai Goshi and i'll call the entry: "crosspass entry" or in Dutch "INKOMEN MET EEN KRUISPAS"
    Ben Reinhardt
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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Ben Reinhardt Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:10 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    So, Harai Goshi or Ashi Guruma? Which time ?

    Oh, yes, it's of course much more ashi-guruma than that it is harai-goshi. Usually when I start such a thread I simply take over the original title in order to avoid that people think I am just being critical or saracastic.

    The leg doesn't do any swiping and rather blocks uke's leg. Strangely though he just pulls, whereas ashi-guruma ideally starts from a pushing movement, which then prompts me to ask in how far his throw is going to be successful in competition. His masters his mawari-komi so I don't doubt he will frequently be able to come in that, but how many of these attempts will lead to scoring is another matter. Mostly, in most realistic scenarios, ashi-guruma will be performed with a leg that is wrapped around uke's leg. The simply blocking variant is a valid option but not easy to pull off against an opponent of equal or better level.

    Some do get offended at any sort of critical analysis of videos for sure. Tori obviously quite skilled, so it's a matter of understanding which technique is done after the entry. The entry to me is usually more interesting than the throw itself. The debana/tsukuri/entry phase is the hardest to master.

    Perhaps he is aiming for Harai Goshi, but as is usual the exact throw that happens often changes due to various factors.

    Cichorei Kano
    Cichorei Kano


    Posts : 1948
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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Cichorei Kano Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:17 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    So, Harai Goshi or Ashi Guruma? Which time ?

    Oh, yes, it's of course much more ashi-guruma than that it is harai-goshi. Usually when I start such a thread I simply take over the original title in order to avoid that people think I am just being critical or saracastic.

    The leg doesn't do any swiping and rather blocks uke's leg. Strangely though he just pulls, whereas ashi-guruma ideally starts from a pushing movement, which then prompts me to ask in how far his throw is going to be successful in competition. His masters his mawari-komi so I don't doubt he will frequently be able to come in that, but how many of these attempts will lead to scoring is another matter. Mostly, in most realistic scenarios, ashi-guruma will be performed with a leg that is wrapped around uke's leg. The simply blocking variant is a valid option but not easy to pull off against an opponent of equal or better level.

    Some do get offended at any sort of critical analysis of videos for sure. Tori obviously quite skilled, so it's a matter of understanding which technique is done after the entry. The entry to me is usually more interesting than the throw itself. The debana/tsukuri/entry phase is the hardest to master.

    Perhaps he is aiming for Harai Goshi, but as is usual the exact throw that happens often changes due to various factors.


    Indeed so. I remember a funny incident once, which coincidentally also was about ashi-guruma/harai-goshi and which as at a regional or national competition. People were guessing what throw the guy scored with, and were saying ashi-guruma, whereas I said harai-goshi. So, the guy came off the tatami and they were asking him, turned out he had never learnt ashi-guruma ! It can become particularly confusing when during the ashi-guruma or ô-guruma the leg also horizontally really moves across a considerable distance, which is very well possible since the situation is dynamic.
    Ben Reinhardt
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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Ben Reinhardt Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:16 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    So, Harai Goshi or Ashi Guruma? Which time ?

    Oh, yes, it's of course much more ashi-guruma than that it is harai-goshi. Usually when I start such a thread I simply take over the original title in order to avoid that people think I am just being critical or saracastic.

    The leg doesn't do any swiping and rather blocks uke's leg. Strangely though he just pulls, whereas ashi-guruma ideally starts from a pushing movement, which then prompts me to ask in how far his throw is going to be successful in competition. His masters his mawari-komi so I don't doubt he will frequently be able to come in that, but how many of these attempts will lead to scoring is another matter. Mostly, in most realistic scenarios, ashi-guruma will be performed with a leg that is wrapped around uke's leg. The simply blocking variant is a valid option but not easy to pull off against an opponent of equal or better level.

    Some do get offended at any sort of critical analysis of videos for sure. Tori obviously quite skilled, so it's a matter of understanding which technique is done after the entry. The entry to me is usually more interesting than the throw itself. The debana/tsukuri/entry phase is the hardest to master.

    Perhaps he is aiming for Harai Goshi, but as is usual the exact throw that happens often changes due to various factors.


    Indeed so. I remember a funny incident once, which coincidentally also was about ashi-guruma/harai-goshi and which as at a regional or national competition. People were guessing what throw the guy scored with, and were saying ashi-guruma, whereas I said harai-goshi. So, the guy came off the tatami and they were asking him, turned out he had never learnt ashi-guruma !  It can become particularly confusing when during the ashi-guruma or ô-guruma the leg also horizontally really moves across a considerable distance, which is very well possible since the situation is dynamic.

    Often in practice we work on specific throws, as usual. I used to have the habit of insisting that they do only the particular throw, for example, Uki Goshi, that I had instructed. Over the years, I realized that often it's more important that the student get the entry correct, rather than some exact criteria for one throw or another. In fact, this happened last night, when I was going over O Goshi, Tsuri Goshi, Uki Goshi.

    My statement to them is usually that ippon is ippon, but it's also important to understand differences between throws.

    One of my original judo instructors had a particular throw he did that he called "Hooking Osoto Gari". As he was a fantastically athletic (and skilled) judoka, his entry was partly due to his physical abilities and partly due to his mastery of technique. It was one of those combinations of (cross-body style) Osoto Gari/Ashi Guruma that tended to defy classification.

    I
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    Kaiten-harai-goshi Empty Re: Kaiten-harai-goshi

    Post by Creamy creamy baileys Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:57 pm

    Man....I was hoping this was clip of a judo fight breaking out in kaiten sushi bar.

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