does your club bow to picture of Kano before and after practice?

I've never had a problem bowing. I learned that we bow when we enter the dojo, we bow when we get on the mat, we bow to the sensei at line up, bow to the Kano pic(if there is one, if not, then just to sensei) and then we bow to each partner before an exercise.

Just wondering why the bow when entering the dojo isnt considered the bow to Kano? Or even the bow when getting on the mat? It was at my first club but we didnt have a Kano pic.

This is turning out better than it started.

BillC wrote:This is turning out better than it started.

lets face it Bill my initial reply was hardly helpful now was it. I didn't teach like that in a real dojo so why did I come and abuse a poster here? Uncalled for on my part regardless of how strong I feel on the subject. Again I have had to choke on my hypocrisy. Expecting others to behave when I give in to my diabetic anger, low sugar is a pig and I should know better how to deal with myself by now.

How are things with you Bill?

Nice to chat.

Sincerely,

Mike

NBK wrote:My granny told me not to argue with the town drunk - strangers might not know who's who.

NBK

Very good!

Hanon wrote:

BillC wrote:This is turning out better than it started.

lets face it Bill my initial reply was hardly helpful now was it. I didn't teach like that in a real dojo so why did I come and abuse a poster here? Uncalled for on my part regardless of how strong I feel on the subject. Again I have had to choke on my hypocrisy. Expecting others to behave when I give in to my diabetic anger, low sugar is a pig and I should know better how to deal with myself by now.

How are things with you Bill?

Nice to chat.

Sincerely,

Mike

Doing well, thank you.

I am somewhat used to reading your posts on both the old forum and this new, improved version.

Sure, your post was a bit grouchy ... though it included the word "tits" which nearly everyone likes ... a bit pompous but not deserving of the response you received. Your post was ... or at least could be interpreted as a general rant ... and Mike Hanon taking himself a bit too seriously is hardly news around here. The response on the other hand was personal ... the kind of thing that if needed at all should have been done by PM.

The OP clearly intended an argument ... seems to have signed up 4/27 just to have this argument ... instigation is not something you need to trouble yourself with ... how would you deal with THAT in the dojo?

Ironic that it occurred on a thread about "rei."

Hanon wrote:

Old Chestnut wrote:I dunno, I signed up at the old JF myself previously, and I'm sure I was more useless

Though our fellow poster Contrarian writes with heavy boots he does speak the truth. If I like it or not the FACTS support his statement. Doing research it is a fact I AM the most unpopular poster on this new forum, By a rather large margin too.

Regards,

Mike

Don't kid yourself, I worked bloody hard that and you are nowhere near my league

AMATUER

atb

sodo

sodo wrote:

Hanon wrote:

Old Chestnut wrote:I dunno, I signed up at the old JF myself previously, and I'm sure I was more useless

Though our fellow poster Contrarian writes with heavy boots he does speak the truth. If I like it or not the FACTS support his statement. Doing research it is a fact I AM the most unpopular poster on this new forum, By a rather large margin too.

Regards,

Mike

Don't kid yourself, I worked bloody hard that and you are nowhere near my league

AMATUER

atb

sodo

Mmmmmm. Research: you have 4 negatives I have 79! Now who is the amateur?

Best wishes to you young novice, train train train, then you to could one day be as unpopular as me. For now take your utter humility and defeat like a man!

Bless,

Mike

Yes, we bow to a picture of Kano Shihan in response to the directive "Kano Shihan rei" from the highest ranked junior student. We have a wide diversity of religious backgrounds amongst the instructors and students (including the pastor of my church and his family, who have been training with us for the past 6 months), and nobody has a problem with bowing - it is clearly understood as part of Japanese etiquette, not a religious act.

Hanon wrote:

sodo wrote:

Hanon wrote:

Old Chestnut wrote:I dunno, I signed up at the old JF myself previously, and I'm sure I was more useless

Though our fellow poster Contrarian writes with heavy boots he does speak the truth. If I like it or not the FACTS support his statement. Doing research it is a fact I AM the most unpopular poster on this new forum, By a rather large margin too.

Regards,

Mike

Don't kid yourself, I worked bloody hard that and you are nowhere near my league

AMATUER

atb

sodo

Mmmmmm. Research: you have 4 negatives I have 79! Now who is the amateur?

Best wishes to you young novice, train train train, then you to could one day be as unpopular as me. For now take your utter humility and defeat like a man!

Bless,

Mike

NO WAY, they are just too scared to mark me down wth negatives incase I bully the mods into give me their names



Please not that at least 3 of the four are no longer around

I knew I should never have tried sodolite


atb

sodo

At the dojo I belong we bow when we enter and exit the dojo. We bow when entering and exiting the room with the tatami and when getting on and off the tatami. At the beginning of class we all perform a kneeling bow with the commands ( I'm about to butcher these words    ) "kiyotsuke........mokso.........yame.........rei!"  
At the end of class we start with the same commands with Sensei facing towards us. Then they will turn around to facing Kano Sensei picture and call "Shomen ni rei!" And class is concluded.

We've never had problems with the rei in our dojo before. However, some time ago we had a muslim judoka start to train with us. His parents did not allow him to fully perform ritsurei (seated bow) as it is muslim tradition that one only bows this low to the prophet Allah, albeit we told them that rei has nothing to do with religion. We accepted this ofcourse with a little modification, he would sit normaly and bend forwards slightly, lowering his head as a demonstration of respect, but not fully bending forwards touching the mat.

I feel this is a situation of mutual respect. He respects our dojo and shihan kano, while we respect his religious beliefs (more his parents tbh.). What do you guys think?

I used to go to a dojo where there was a picture of Kano in the middle of the wall but next to it there were pictures of unknown contemporary living people. One of them looked like an unethical salesman and the other looked like a drunk. I felt uncomfortable having to bow before these other people. But really, my bow was directed to Kano, shihan. I really think that Kano's photo should be displayed separate from anybody else's.

Ryvai wrote:We've never had problems with the rei in our dojo before. However, some time ago we had a muslim judoka start to train with us. His parents did not allow him to fully perform ritsurei (seated bow) as it is muslim tradition that one only bows this low to the prophet Allah, albeit we told them that rei has nothing to do with religion. We accepted this ofcourse with a little modification, he would sit normaly and bend forwards slightly, lowering his head as a demonstration of respect, but not fully bending forwards touching the mat.

I feel this is a situation of mutual respect. He respects our dojo and shihan kano, while we respect his religious beliefs (more his parents tbh.). What do you guys think?

reminds me of my old high school. in this particular small town, there was a large jehovah's witness population, and during the playing of national anthem in the morning, the jws would leave the class room and stand outside the door. made no sense to me, as the music was still audible in the hallway.

we have a couple of orthodox jewish kids who joined my club and their father insists that they keep on their yarmulke... oy,,, vey.........

do you have japanese sensei at your club? only clubs i've trained in that knelt down was under a japanese hachidan.

i run a class a week, and during my class, i don't bow in or out. we start together and we leave together, that's all. i don't like rituals and rules that much. people get silly with this stuff so i am going to go on being silly in my own way.

contrarian wrote:
do you have japanese sensei at your club? only clubs i've trained in that knelt down was under a japanese hachidan.

i run a class a week, and during my class, i don't bow in or out. we start together and we leave together, that's all. i don't like rituals and rules that much. people get silly with this stuff so i am going to go on being silly in my own way.

This is a question about proper reishiki (etiquette/tatami manners). I sincerely believe that it is disrespectful to not use rei, especially zarei (seated bow) to the sensei during the start and end of practice. The kamiza-ni rei is optional it seems, since many dojo does not have proper kamiza or even a picture of shihan jigoro kano. Keep in mind that you are a rolemodel and you are not setting an example to your students by ignoring traditional reishiki.

This reminds me of a quote I heard once: "The biggest challenge for youth today is learning manners when they dont see any". The message behind this quote is that we say "this and this" about the youth today, while we completely ignore the fact that it is WE that's supposed to teach them. I always giggle when I hear people say things like: "Gah.. the youth today, so unmannered!", I usually respond to this by saying: "Well, who raised the youth of today?".

You, as a sensei, have a mindset regarding rei, and that is fine, but why should this be enforced on your students? Perhaps many of them like the idea of bowing to eachother? I am sorry, but I cannot agree with this mindset. Even if you personally dont care for the traditional judo reishiki, please teach it to your judoka students, you owe them that, it is actually part of your job

Ryvai wrote:

contrarian wrote:
do you have japanese sensei at your club? only clubs i've trained in that knelt down was under a japanese hachidan.

i run a class a week, and during my class, i don't bow in or out. we start together and we leave together, that's all. i don't like rituals and rules that much. people get silly with this stuff so i am going to go on being silly in my own way.

This is a question about proper reishiki (etiquette/tatami manners). I sincerely believe that it is disrespectful to not use rei, especially zarei (seated bow) to the sensei during the start and end of practice. The kamiza-ni rei is optional it seems, since many dojo does not have proper kamiza or even a picture of shihan jigoro kano. Keep in mind that you are a rolemodel and you are not setting an example to your students by ignoring traditional reishiki.

This reminds me of a quote I heard once: "The biggest challenge for youth today is learning manners when they dont see any". The message behind this quote is that we say "this and this" about the youth today, while we completely ignore the fact that it is WE that's supposed to teach them. I always giggle when I hear people say things like: "Gah.. the youth today, so unmannered!", I usually respond to this by saying: "Well, who raised the youth of today?".

You, as a sensei, have a mindset regarding rei, and that is fine, but why should this be enforced on your students? Perhaps many of them like the idea of bowing to eachother? I am sorry, but I cannot agree with this mindset. Even if you personally dont care for the traditional judo reishiki, please teach it to your judoka students, you owe them that, it is actually part of your job

i should have clarified my position better. that doesn't mean we'd see eye to eye at the end of the day, but i did quite the poor job at explaining the situation. at my judo club, there are 4 classes a week. i run one of them. while i am there to help out on other classes, i am the most strict person you'd see, and much more strict than the other coaches there when it comes to dojo etiquette. but, when i'm the only boss around, i run it the way i like it, whether others agree with me or not.

Fredericton Judo Club has a picture of Jigoro Kano at the front of the club's permanent location. We bow to the shomen before and after every class. Sometimes the rei is kneeling in seiza, sometimes it is standing. I am grateful for everything judo has brought to me and my family, so my bowing is done with quite a bit of sincereity and thankfulness. Even when I've had my ass kicked for 2 straight hours some nights.

We always bow to Kano's picture before and after training. I have been practicing Judo in the same Dojo for almost 14 years, and I can't remenber a training session without rei. Once, and only once, some yaers ago, for some reason I don't know, we made the rei standing. We always do it in seiza, saluting twice (sensei ni rei, shihan ni rei). I also notice that people who moves to my city and come to our dojo also do it naturally, as if they have been always doing it in their former dojos.

I am somehow surprised to notice that almost fifty percent of people here do not bow to Kano's picture before and after practice. I really thought it was a universal part of Judo etiquete. I think I have to travel more and know more Jodo clubs...

I knew a person, years ago, that converted to a Neopentecostal Church, and said that he decided to leave Judo because he refused to bow to Kano's picture on the wall, but he never told me where he practiced Judo in the past.

What about other pictures ? In many clubs there isn't just a picture of Kanô, but also one of other personalities such as, for example, a picture of the founder of the club, in particular when he is deceased. Or, if you're really modest, also a picture of ... YOURSELF, the living sensei of the club !  

Cichorei Kano wrote:What about other pictures ?  In many clubs there isn't just a picture of Kanô, but also one of other personalities such as, for example, a picture of the founder of the club, in particular when he is deceased. Or, if you're really modest, also a picture of ... YOURSELF, the living sensei of the club !   

I bow to my own portrait at home before leaving for judo class, and upon my safe return, but it is only a local custom.

 

JudoSensei wrote:

Cichorei Kano wrote:What about other pictures ?  In many clubs there isn't just a picture of Kanô, but also one of other personalities such as, for example, a picture of the founder of the club, in particular when he is deceased. Or, if you're really modest, also a picture of ... YOURSELF, the living sensei of the club !   

I bow to my own portrait at home before leaving for judo class, and upon my safe return, but it is only a local custom.

 

JudoSensei,
It seems local customs in California are very peculiar     
Cichorei Kano,
That avatar you used to display here (the real guy in the Holy See) would be an interest picture to put on the wall near Kano's. After all, I remenber a guy who once, instead of bowing, made the sign of the cross in front of Ueshiba's picture in a local Aikido dojo... 

I also notice that it is always the same picture of Kano displayed in Judo clubs I have already visited, or in tournaments. Why don't people use those ones showing Kano smiling?

Tranquilo wrote: Why don't people use those ones showing Kano smiling?

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quite surprised at the # of no votes so far @ 23, vs 29 yes votes.

contrarian wrote:quite surprised at the # of no votes so far @ 23, vs 29 yes votes.

It depends upon how you read and interpret the OP's question,

Sydney University JUdo Club bows to the picture of Dr.Kano,
but only at the finish of training, therefore the answer could
be either "Yes" or "No"

Im a newbie. At my dojo we do. I was told its simply to show respect to the founder, Kano. Seems reasonable.