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    Debut fight for one of my guys

    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:49 pm



    Nicks match from the weekend with the locker room warm up first.

    He stuck to the game plan and executed it. The plan was via figure 4 armlock from top or tko depending on tactical circumstances.

    Nick has trained primarily in the Combat Sambo syllabus and this is his first full contact match. The aim was to win via Combat Sambo strategy hence the heavy emphasis on controlling the wrestling action. This was a good learnibg experience for him against a larger opponent.

    He is just turned 18 years old and lost 12kg for this fight, proving both the efficiency of this combat method and the associated health benefits of training.

    Enjoy

    Cheers
    nomoremondays
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    Post by nomoremondays on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:13 pm

    Good for him. Well done.
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    DougNZ

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    Post by DougNZ on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:49 pm

    Well done, Nick and well done, Ricebale. A few holes caused by eagerness but overall good positional control. That's a great performance first time out.

    Nice closing shot; guy gets girls Twisted Evil
    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:27 pm

    Cheers guys,he is a good kid and pleasure to coach.

    He has said it was a great test of his training, he was picking apart his technique after the match on video playback, the technology these days is just so great for this.
    BillC
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    Post by BillC on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:53 am

    I have no idea why y'all would want to do this ,,, but hey, good luck!
    genetic judoka
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    Post by genetic judoka on Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:24 am

    well done. god I hate getting punched in the face. videos like this remind me of that.


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    Hanon

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    Post by Hanon on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:52 pm

    genetic judoka wrote:well done. god I hate getting punched in the face. videos like this remind me of that.
    I am relieved to learn you don't enjoy being punched in the face young man, I don't thing anyone does do they?Shocked
    Mike


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    judoratt
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    Post by judoratt on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:06 pm

    Well done gentelmen.Smile
    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:06 pm

    I don't go out drinking with anyone who enjoys getting out punched in the face Very Happy

    Had two judo guys on the card who also got victories, they are from a club in the southern highlands but come down to ny beach sessions and my guys go there for sparring.

    I'll post their fights too once I convert them from facebook vids.

    In the vid above Nic is 5'9 and his opponent was 6'4, our strategy revolved around three things:

    Everyone is the same height in groundwork
    Tall guys tend to leave their hands down and very vulnerable against a direct attack off the bat before they can find range
    Stay out of his guard

    I was 100% happy with Nics mental effort and 75% with technique, he was supposed to finish with an ude garami

    You will note his groundwork strategy revolved around not giving onto his back, he resisted the headlock turnover as anyone woukd in wrestling or judo. His other sport is rugby and so we planned on a 3 round ruck and maul strategy, worked well.

    As an aside he is school captain and will finish in the top 10 percentile for school this year.

    I do not advocate mma as a career choice personally, rather as a coming of age ritual.

    Cheers


    Last edited by Ricebale on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)
    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale on Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:29 pm

    Here is one of the other guys, 1st Kyu in Judo, he was facing a guy with a good pro boxing record. He performed the transition in the clinch to throw we were drilling the week before at the beach perfectly.



    As a road map this is how you apply Judo in a fight or MMA in my view.

    Enjoy
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    Hanon

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    Post by Hanon on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:50 pm

    Ricebale wrote:


    Everyone is the same height in groundwork


    Tell that to kaminaga Akio or when he was alive that is! With respect I think this a very unwise thing to write.
    I also think I head you shouting at your pupil to "keep your weight on him (meaning his opponent)" ? Why?
    Interesting debate could come from this. I am willing to learn from new schools of thought.


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    genetic judoka
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    Post by genetic judoka on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:23 am

    yes, in groundwork I try to keep my weight on my opponent, lest he move away and get out of the bad position I worked so diligently to put him in.

    RBR, that second video... wow. not what I think of when I think of classical judo throws, but hey you can't argue with results.


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    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:44 am

    Hanon wrote:
    Ricebale wrote:


    Everyone is the same height in groundwork


    Tell that to kaminaga Akio or when he was alive that is! With respect I think this a very unwise thing to write.
    I also think I head you shouting at your pupil to "keep your weight on him (meaning his opponent)" ? Why?
    Interesting debate could come from this. I am willing to learn from new schools of thought.

    Ha! I should say in the same weight group people are the same height, I think Aki Bono was my height when he was laying down. I should be more clear that this is reference to being on top mores than underneath Geesink Smile

    The weight on principle I actually got from Nobuyuki Sato in his book "Best Judo pg 244", in which he describes his partners saying he was when in osokomi as being like a "glutinous hunk of rice cake" on top of his opponent.

    This bearing weight down in a totality approach does two things in groundwork:

    1. makes it harder for your opponent to breath
    2. gives you a maximum sensation of the opponents body in which to react

    Nick was in part of his fight causing his weight to come over the far side of his opponent hence he almost got rolled this is "weight over", if he spread his weight into his opponent favouring the side his legs were on the roll over would have been impossible to a normal strengthed opponent this is "weight down" in my terminology.

    You will notice nick whilst in transitions is very mobile but when in yoko control he is very heavy on his opponent, the desired effect is to produce the amount of pressure similar to an osokomi pin in a Judo match whereby the opponent after 19 seconds of desperate escapes attempts has exhausted himself even if he gets free. All you have done in the meantime is utilise your body weight whilst using very little energy, the fight then continues in your favour. For MMA there is no winning via a pin but the pin is very overlooked as an offensive tool IMO.

    Cheers
    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:48 am

    genetic judoka wrote:yes, in groundwork I try to keep my weight on my opponent, lest he move away and get out of the bad position I worked so diligently to put him in.

    RBR, that second video... wow. not what I think of when I think of classical judo throws, but hey you can't argue with results.

    It's actually the throw in "name that throw" that is in the tech section at the moment. It's a rear throw variation of ura nage, I was surprised he didn't get a ko off it like we drilled, if he arched his back a little more it would have been straight ko I think.

    It was a popular throw in the late 80's I think as a counter to koshi garuma, basic movement but looks impressive!
    Dutch Budo
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    Post by Dutch Budo on Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:22 pm

    Nice ura nage indeed. In that position, against the cage, a high crotch takedown is really effective too.

    I mean no offense, but in the fight against your pupil, the opponent didnt seem to know what he was doing at all. Your guy had good wrestling, but the guy on bottom was doing everything wrong basically. Anyway nice to see the preperation and fight, you can clearly see he´s doing what you guys drilled.


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    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:22 pm

    Dutch Budo wrote:Nice ura nage indeed. In that position, against the cage, a high crotch takedown is really effective too.

    I mean no offense, but in the fight against your pupil, the opponent didnt seem to know what he was doing at all. Your guy had good wrestling, but the guy on bottom was doing everything wrong basically. Anyway nice to see the preperation and fight, you can clearly see he´s doing what you guys drilled.

    The ura nage has that "Oh Feck" effect which sets up the next transition.

    With my guy the wrestling blitz on the off side catches dudes off guard who are used to more traditional guard work, plus basically the crowd and atmosphere plus the pressure on from the fighter causes them to mentally shut down, it is very different fighting in MMA than at the club mat or a grappling comp. I think the other guys game plan was to use his reach and kickboxing experience to keep it at range and you observe he was totally unable to react correctly against my guys strategy. It would be harder for Nick to work that easy again I think once his prospective opponents see that strategy in play.

    He's a good kid and it is refreshing to have someone not only listen but implement a game plan!

    Cheers
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    Hanon

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    Post by Hanon on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:59 am

    Ricebale wrote:
    Hanon wrote:
    Ricebale wrote:


    Everyone is the same height in groundwork


    Tell that to kaminaga Akio or when he was alive that is! With respect I think this a very unwise thing to write.
    I also think I head you shouting at your pupil to "keep your weight on him (meaning his opponent)" ? Why?
    Interesting debate could come from this. I am willing to learn from new schools of thought.

    Ha! I should say in the same weight group people are the same height, I think Aki Bono was my height when he was laying down. I should be more clear that this is reference to being on top mores than underneath Geesink Smile

    The weight on principle I actually got from Nobuyuki Sato in his book "Best Judo pg 244", in which he describes his partners saying he was when in osokomi as being like a "glutinous hunk of rice cake" on top of his opponent.

    This bearing weight down in a totality approach does two things in groundwork:

    1. makes it harder for your opponent to breath
    2. gives you a maximum sensation of the opponents body in which to react

    Nick was in part of his fight causing his weight to come over the far side of his opponent hence he almost got rolled this is "weight over", if he spread his weight into his opponent favouring the side his legs were on the roll over would have been impossible to a normal strengthed opponent this is "weight down" in my terminology.

    You will notice nick whilst in transitions is very mobile but when in yoko control he is very heavy on his opponent, the desired effect is to produce the amount of pressure similar to an osokomi pin in a Judo match whereby the opponent after 19 seconds of desperate escapes attempts has exhausted himself even if he gets free. All you have done in the meantime is utilise your body weight whilst using very little energy, the fight then continues in your favour. For MMA there is no winning via a pin but the pin is very overlooked as an offensive tool IMO.

    Cheers
    Hi,
    Thanks for the reply I am having internet problems and am writing at present form a hotspot that when the cash runs out I will get cut of. My reply will be long so fear losing it. May I reply to you when my service is restored?
    Kind regards,
    Mike


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    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.
    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale on Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:07 am

    No probs
    Dutch Budo
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    Post by Dutch Budo on Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:20 am

    Ricebale wrote:
    Dutch Budo wrote:Nice ura nage indeed. In that position, against the cage, a high crotch takedown is really effective too.

    I mean no offense, but in the fight against your pupil, the opponent didnt seem to know what he was doing at all. Your guy had good wrestling, but the guy on bottom was doing everything wrong basically. Anyway nice to see the preperation and fight, you can clearly see he´s doing what you guys drilled.

    The ura nage has that "Oh Feck" effect which sets up the next transition.

    With my guy the wrestling blitz on the off side catches dudes off guard who are used to more traditional guard work, plus basically the crowd and atmosphere plus the pressure on from the fighter causes them to mentally shut down, it is very different fighting in MMA than at the club mat or a grappling comp. I think the other guys game plan was to use his reach and kickboxing experience to keep it at range and you observe he was totally unable to react correctly against my guys strategy. It would be harder for Nick to work that easy again I think once his prospective opponents see that strategy in play.

    He's a good kid and it is refreshing to have someone not only listen but implement a game plan!

    Cheers

    I fought MMA so I know what its like indeed. But it does very much help to have a gameplan. Gameplans win fights especially in the lower divisions.


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    Hanon

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    Post by Hanon on Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:11 pm

    Ricebale wrote:No probs

    Okay. Sorry it has taken me so long to reply I am sorry to say I simply couldn't find the thread Embarassed

    May I suggest a few things to you, things I call basic principles in ne waza? I have no idea what you know about judo so please forgive me if I am preaching to the converted? silent

    1)Stand up and hold a cannon ball in your one hand! Question If you hold the canon ball to your chest you can manage the 6kilo without pain nor strain. Now slowly take your hand away from your body and what happens? The cannon ball starts to feel heavier and heavier 'till we reach a point our arm drops and we drop the canon ball.
    What is this in terms of bio mechanics? The further away ones hands are taken from the body the weaker they become.
    Hang on I a getting there.

    2) When we talk of weight in relation to ne waza IF we accept the most effective way to hold an uke is with our weight on top of him let us take this notion to the full point. Uke lies down and tori sits on ukes chest in anza. This should be 100% effective IF the notion of weight as you write is used. How does uke escape? Uke jus tilts to one side and tori will fall off.

    With number 2) in mind it is something else then other than weight on top of uke?

    3) Where should the weight of tori be for the maximum effect of an immobilisation? Lets think about this. Have uke lie down now tori passes around the top of uke and 'just' holds (imobilises) the head and one arm only of uke in a kuzure kami shiho gatame. I would guess that 95% of toris weight is distributed on the floor well above the head of uke.

    4) For uke to escape this kazure kami shihao gatame uke HAS to stretch his arms away from his body, he has to extend his hands well above his head to grasp tori. We have already established what happens to our strength when we take the hands away from the core of our trunk, they become weaker.
    The weight in ne waza should really be on the floor or at least the vast majority of it AND as far away from the COG of uke as possible.

    5) If this is the case how the heck DO we pin an active fighting uke? Seems a hopeless case Shocked
    What expert judoka do is to not place their weight onto an uke but keep their weight on the floor then wrap a part of uke up using their arms AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THEIR OWN BODIES. Tori does not try and use his weight to obtain a submission but tori will squeeze his uke in relation to the breathing of ukes breathing. Each time uke breaths out tori applies more torque and pushes him more to his body not takes his body to uke. Its about crushing NOT merely holding.

    6) The body of tori needs to be as soft as putty, much like water, relaxed. Ask an uke to lie down then place an obi across his body. If uke touches one part that contact may have an effect on a certain part of the obi but will not affect it all. Now use a broom handle. If uke just touches any one part of that broom handle the whole handle is affected.

    Torque in certain techniques like the kesa gatame family are vital. Weight must be kept on the floor, tori must not just lie embracing uke but applying the technique making it as uncomfortable for uke as possible. I DO NOT mean applying pressure to the spine.

    Tate shiho gatame is the exception to the rule and I cannot explain the principle of this unique waza here.

    In general fight like water, weight on the floor trying to nullify the strength of an uke by making his stretch his arms so he is weak. Tori needs to keep his hands as close to his body as possible so tori is strong.

    The use of hands for tori is paramount, a good grip then pull uke into the vice. I am rather past my sell by date for judo but even to this day I can obtain submissions on much younger stronger partners by the correct use of technique on the floor.

    The master of this is Awazu sensei in France. Small in height, built like a brick toilet, hands like vices and skilled in knowing where to place his weight and how to stop an uke from breathing.

    One minute on a tatami I could show you this, its so difficult to explain in written form.

    Second point. The taller your partner is the greater the advantage he SHOULD have over one IF he knows how to use it. Tell me, in his day WHO was going to beat Geesink on the floor? When he stretched out his feet where 6' from ukes body and Geesink's COG a staggering half metre away. How could one lift or get under that? That is why I mentioned Kaminaga Akio. Height does matter on the floor.

    Food for thought.

    Mike


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    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:25 pm

    Cheers Mike,

    I will digest that, a bit of experimentation etc. one reason I post here is to get Judo technical feedback, you have been very helpful.

    The use of the pin as an active weapon is under utilised in the combat arts outside of judo and wrestling, just how very exhaustive it is under a good pin cannot be understated IMO.

    Regards,

    Terry
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    Hanon

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    Post by Hanon on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:30 am

    Ricebale wrote:Cheers Mike,

    I will digest that, a bit of experimentation etc. one reason I post here is to get Judo technical feedback, you have been very helpful.

    The use of the pin as an active weapon is under utilised in the combat arts outside of judo and wrestling, just how very exhaustive it is under a good pin cannot be understated IMO.

    Regards,

    Terry

    Hi,

    I should have written a caution in my post. What I wrote applies to judo ne waza and the rules do not allow strikes. In MMA you do allow strikes. Would this change the basic philosophy of what I have written above? I don't know as I have never practiced MMA so be careful!

    Mike


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    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:32 am

    The beauty of a good pin is that it does not allow effective striking generally speaking by the person on the bottom. Contrast this to guardwork whereby the person on the bottom who has in effect control over the top person has a real chance of recieving an effective strike in the course of play generally speaking.
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    DougNZ

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    Post by DougNZ on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:45 am

    Hanon wrote:
    Ricebale wrote:Cheers Mike,

    I will digest that, a bit of experimentation etc. one reason I post here is to get Judo technical feedback, you have been very helpful.

    The use of the pin as an active weapon is under utilised in the combat arts outside of judo and wrestling, just how very exhaustive it is under a good pin cannot be understated IMO.

    Regards,

    Terry

    Hi,

    I should have written a caution in my post. What I wrote applies to judo ne waza and the rules do not allow strikes. In MMA you do allow strikes. Would this change the basic philosophy of what I have written above? I don't know as I have never practiced MMA so be careful!

    Mike

    Strikes change everything. I use strikes to 'drive' my opponent. For example, if I wanted the coiled armlock/ ude garame I could pin my opponent in side control/ yoko shiho gatame and either wrestle his arm into the bent position (poor form) or feint to get him to move his arm into position for me. With strikes, however, I can use top elbow strikes to the head and when he brings his arm up to defend, then I go for the coil. Likewise, to bring his arm back down I use my bottom elbow to his ribs.

    Judo and BJJ often plays in the middle ground with weight over and above certain points (e.g. the shoulder). With strikes allowed, groundfighting is no different than the stand-up game; either you are inside range or you are outside range, and anything in between is likely to hurt!
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    Post by Von_Adams on Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:28 am

    I know a young fighter, will have him take a look at this video for inspiration. Thanks for the post.

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