Kosei Inoue at the Paris Grand Slam

I was in Paris last weekend, all in all a great tournament, I think the new rules led to many more forward attacks and had an overall positive effect.

Some side observations on the 100+ category.

It was somewhat disappointing to see Shichinohe drawn against Riner in the third round, as I was hoping to see them matched in the final. But, I noticed that Shichinohe was accompanied in the coach box by none other the Kosei Inoue. Indeed, Kosei only accompanied Shichinohe until after this match, while Keiji Suzuki accompanied the other Japanese male fighters.

So, Shichinohe was touted as a real threat to Riner already before the tournament, and his first two fights certainly backed that claim; his second elimination match , before the Riner fight, added a lot of promise. Riner on the other hand looked slow and didn't show much at all during his second elimination fight, when his opponent cumulated four penalties for a hansoku-make.

So, there it was, the highlight of the heavyweights for me! Kosei took his boy to the mat, bowed ceremonially to the French coach and the referee table, the fight started. It took 13 seconds for Riner to bury Shichinohe with that Uchi-Mata, and you knew whom it was meant for even before he pointed at Kosei..

After the loss, Kosei stopped accompanying Shichinohe for his next matches. Did anyone notice that?

Boy Riner made Sichinohe look like a green belt. He just grabs ahold of Sichinohe crunches him lets him stand up and throws him like a rag doll. If this is the best Japan has it is going to be a while before they challenge Teddy.

They (Japan) had the best to face Riner; but now he is doing MMA...
Is Takeshi Ojitani (spell?) strong enough?

Emanuele2 wrote:The (Japan) had the best to face Riner; but now he is doing MMA...
Is Takeshi Ojitani (spell?) strong enough?

I don't think that Ishii had/has what it takes to beat Riner.

Emanuele2 wrote:The (Japan) had the best to face Riner; but now he is doing MMA...
Is Takeshi Ojitani (spell?) strong enough?

Ojitani is strong and has good technique. Physically he looks like a bigger version of Yamashita and he is only 20. His Ne-Waza is particularly good for a +100 fighter. But like nearly every Heavyweight he will struggle with the Riner's speed and height (Ojitani is close to 6'2). If I was part of the coaching set up I'd focus on developping Shichinohe and Ojitani imo they have the most potential. I heard about Another japanese judo player called Aaron Phillip Wolf (I think one of his parents is European)who is supposed to be "the future" but he is only 16 years old. The new Rules will make it even harder to beat Riner.

The_Harvest wrote:I heard about Another japanese judo player called Aaron Phillip Wolf (I think one of his parents is European)who is supposed to be "the future" but he is only 16 years old.

I looked on about him, he is German, not Japanese.

Emanuele2 wrote:

The_Harvest wrote:I heard about Another japanese judo player called Aaron Phillip Wolf (I think one of his parents is European)who is supposed to be "the future" but he is only 16 years old.

I looked on about him, he is German, not Japanese.

He is Japanese:
http://www.judo-ch.jp/player_introduce/men/20120806_urufu/

Aaron Wolf Aaron Wolf (100kg class men)

Judo competition was held last Sun interscholastic athletic competition (hereinafter, interscholastic athletic meet), and comes with Tokai University Urayasu High School has accomplished the feat of three major high school tournament Triple Crown. Became the driving force behind that is a current high school sophomore Aaron Wolf.
But enough to the inner thigh of good weapon, with the power of the shot, its power is said to class and super high school. In addition, also received strong, judo is a great sense extraordinary.
Ippon victory and all, Poland Cadet international competitions that took place in May, but there is a Cadet, its strength it is also proven on the world stage.
Narrowly missed winning, even in interscholastic athletic meet individual match, wowed the venue to exert overwhelming. Wolf is still a high school sophomore. Pledge further growth next year, aims to No.1 high school player.
Japanese judo heavyweight men mired in a slump. The future of Japan, I want to focus on state-of-the-art of the preeminent sense.

Translated with Google translator.

The_Harvest wrote:I heard about Another japanese judo player called Aaron Phillip Wolf (I think one of his parents is European)who is supposed to be "the future" but he is only 16 years old.

He placed 1st at European Cup Cadets last year.

DCS wrote:

The_Harvest wrote:I heard about Another japanese judo player called Aaron Phillip Wolf (I think one of his parents is European)who is supposed to be "the future" but he is only 16 years old.

He placed 1st at European Cup Cadets last year.

I have heard he has dual citizenship both German and Japanese. He does have a Jpanese logo on his gi while fighting in the European championships.

judoratt wrote:

DCS wrote:

The_Harvest wrote:I heard about Another japanese judo player called Aaron Phillip Wolf (I think one of his parents is European)who is supposed to be "the future" but he is only 16 years old.

He placed 1st at European Cup Cadets last year.

I have heard he has dual citizenship both German and Japanese. He does have a Jpanese logo on his gi while fighting in the European championships.

It's not the "European championships" but "Europe cadet cup". It's an international cadet tournament the equivalent of a Grand Prix or Grand Slam for the seniors.

[quote="The_Harvest"]

judoratt wrote:

DCS wrote:

The_Harvest wrote:I heard about Another japanese judo player called Aaron Phillip Wolf (I think one of his parents is European)who is supposed to be "the future" but he is only 16 years old.

He placed 1st at European Cup Cadets last year.

I have heard he has dual citizenship both German and Japanese. He does have a Jpanese logo on his gi while fighting in the European championships.

It's not the "European championships" but "Europe cadet cup". It's an international cadet tournament the equivalent of a Grand Prix or Grand Slam for the seniors. [/quot

Thanks for the correction Was he representing Japan? Do you know where he lives and or trains?

[quote="judoratt"]

The_Harvest wrote:

judoratt wrote:

DCS wrote:

The_Harvest wrote:I heard about Another japanese judo player called Aaron Phillip Wolf (I think one of his parents is European)who is supposed to be "the future" but he is only 16 years old.

He placed 1st at European Cup Cadets last year.

I have heard he has dual citizenship both German and Japanese. He does have a Jpanese logo on his gi while fighting in the European championships.

It's not the "European championships" but "Europe cadet cup". It's an international cadet tournament the equivalent of a Grand Prix or Grand Slam for the seniors. [/quot

Thanks for the correction Was he representing Japan? Do you know where he lives and or trains?

Yes he was representing Japan. He is a second year high school student and will join the Tokai university after his graduation (his high school is affiliated with Tokai). Don't worry he will only represent Japan.
He is part of a generation of Tokai students that is thought to be champion material together with the half-american Matthew Baker (18 years old -90) and Kenya Ohara (18 years old -81. Both took a bronze medal at last years all Japan weight selection. Baker is supposed to have the most potential out of the crop according to l'esprit du judo (French judo magazine).

Baker a the age of 16:


off topic:I'm still puzzled about the whole Elco van der Geest situation. in fact I find it disgraceful.

Thanks Harvest for the update on the Japanese talent, it is excviting there are some solid prospects for Japan. It is my opinion that Teddy will be dominant for quite some time. BTW I don't know anything and also googled Van der Geest will you enlighten us? Thanks again for the education on the young talent.

judoratt wrote:Thanks Harvest for the update on the Japanese talent, it is excviting there are some solid prospects for Japan. It is my opinion that Teddy will be dominant for quite some time. BTW I don't know anything and also googled Van der Geest will you enlighten us? Thanks again for the education on the young talent.

No problem. I had the intention to make a thread where any e-judo member could post about upcoming talents from their own nation and from other nations. A bit like a "talent watch".
Elco van der Geest is a -100 Dutch judo player who lost his place in the national team to Henk Grol. In response he decided to fight for Belgium. I'm still surprised the IJF let him make that transition. I always thought that there were rules concerning the eligibility of the athletes. You might have heard of his brother Dennis van der Geest (Olympic bronze medallist, World champion and European champion) who had a great rivalry going on with Tmenov.

With regard to van der Geest, athletes transfer all the the in Weightlifting. I realize it is different as a sport, but there are still sportsmanship rules, eligibility etc.

What I find distasteful is Riner's attitude. I know he is the very best man +100 has, but still. He comes across as brash and cocky.

I have no problem with an athlete having confidence, a bit of swagger and pumping their fist in victory. However, he is past that point to being disrespectful.

rjohnston411 wrote:With regard to van der Geest, athletes transfer all the the in Weightlifting. I realize it is different as a sport, but there are still sportsmanship rules, eligibility etc.

What I find distasteful is Riner's attitude. I know he is the very best man +100 has, but still. He comes across as brash and cocky.

I have no problem with an athlete having confidence, a bit of swagger and pumping their fist in victory. However, he is past that point to being disrespectful.

This has always been an issue with Riner. I was hoping that he let this kind of antics go but I'm afraid I was wrong. No matter how many gold medals he'll win I can never place him above someone like Yamashita, Geesink, Ruska or Inoue. His attitude is not worthy of a champion. You have to understand that here in France Riner has been chosen as the sportsman of the year. His popularity is on a all time high.

The_Harvest wrote:

rjohnston411 wrote:With regard to van der Geest, athletes transfer all the the in Weightlifting. I realize it is different as a sport, but there are still sportsmanship rules, eligibility etc.

What I find distasteful is Riner's attitude. I know he is the very best man +100 has, but still. He comes across as brash and cocky.

I have no problem with an athlete having confidence, a bit of swagger and pumping their fist in victory. However, he is past that point to being disrespectful.

This has always been an issue with Riner. I was hoping that he let this kind of antics go but I'm afraid I was wrong. No matter how many gold medals he'll win I can never place him above someone like Yamashita, Geesink, Ruska or Inoue. His attitude is not worthy of a champion. You have to understand that here in France Riner has been chosen as the sportsman of the year. His popularity is on a all time high.

Ah, Sportsman of the Year? Surely this won't go to his head .

I agree that Geesink is a better champion, and the rest too. Geesink in particular because he was the 'dragon-slayer' who felled the mighty Japanese at their own art. Despite this, he remained humble, but not Teddy Riner.

The_Harvest wrote:

judoratt wrote:Thanks Harvest for the update on the Japanese talent, it is excviting there are some solid prospects for Japan. It is my opinion that Teddy will be dominant for quite some time. BTW I don't know anything and also googled Van der Geest will you enlighten us? Thanks again for the education on the young talent.

No problem. I had the intention to make a thread where any e-judo member could post about upcoming talents from their own nation and from other nations. A bit like a "talent watch".
Elco van der Geest is a -100 Dutch judo player who lost his place in the national team to Henk Grol. In response he decided to fight for Belgium. I'm still surprised the IJF let him make that transition. I always thought that there were rules concerning the eligibility of the athletes. You might have heard of his brother Dennis van der Geest (Olympic bronze medallist, World champion and European champion) who had a great rivalry going on with Tmenov.

Surely, one has the right to change citizenship ? There are numerous precedents and examples of this, famous example, more famous examples, such as Iliadis, or Parisi, who has fought internationally and won medals for Italy, the UK, and France. One of Van der Geest's predecessors and former European champion and world medallist Van Barneveld was originally Dutch too before he joined the same team as Van Der Geest but obviously many years ago. There were posts on the forum here some years ago when the idea was raised that Ishii would apply for US citizenship and fight for the US. Besides, there are numerous such precedents in athletics, basketball, soccer ... There are IJF rules in place yes which include a time-limit, and which depend on whether the leaving country objects or not. In most cases they do not, luckily, as obviously the idea should be not to try and harm someone's sports career.

rjohnston411 wrote:

The_Harvest wrote:

rjohnston411 wrote:With regard to van der Geest, athletes transfer all the the in Weightlifting. I realize it is different as a sport, but there are still sportsmanship rules, eligibility etc.

What I find distasteful is Riner's attitude. I know he is the very best man +100 has, but still. He comes across as brash and cocky.

I have no problem with an athlete having confidence, a bit of swagger and pumping their fist in victory. However, he is past that point to being disrespectful.

This has always been an issue with Riner. I was hoping that he let this kind of antics go but I'm afraid I was wrong. No matter how many gold medals he'll win I can never place him above someone like Yamashita, Geesink, Ruska or Inoue. His attitude is not worthy of a champion. You have to understand that here in France Riner has been chosen as the sportsman of the year. His popularity is on a all time high.

Ah, Sportsman of the Year? Surely this won't go to his head .

I agree that Geesink is a better champion, and the rest too. Geesink in particular because he was the 'dragon-slayer' who felled the mighty Japanese at their own art. Despite this, he remained humble, but not Teddy Riner.

Let's not make this into another X-bashing thread. People like or dislike certain famous sporters partly on a public persona, I understand. We don't have to be wanting to get married to them. With all respect, very few people, I think, would have called Geesink 'humble' and I do not mean this with disrespect to him either. I mention this only because he is deceased and because I do not think I would be doing injustice to him either. I can't even imagine he would have called himself humble. Seriously. Geesink knew very well he was the strongest, and had a self-confidence like granite. You don't typically get that through "being humble". I cannot imagine anyone in his home country even, who speaks the same language as he did, to refer to him in that way. He did not need to be 'humble'; Thinking in terms of humility of a superchampion is more a poetic and romantic kind of thing than realism. But let's not further move on a tangent, and move back to what the thread was really about.

Cichorei Kano wrote:

rjohnston411 wrote:

The_Harvest wrote:

rjohnston411 wrote:With regard to van der Geest, athletes transfer all the the in Weightlifting. I realize it is different as a sport, but there are still sportsmanship rules, eligibility etc.

What I find distasteful is Riner's attitude. I know he is the very best man +100 has, but still. He comes across as brash and cocky.

I have no problem with an athlete having confidence, a bit of swagger and pumping their fist in victory. However, he is past that point to being disrespectful.

This has always been an issue with Riner. I was hoping that he let this kind of antics go but I'm afraid I was wrong. No matter how many gold medals he'll win I can never place him above someone like Yamashita, Geesink, Ruska or Inoue. His attitude is not worthy of a champion. You have to understand that here in France Riner has been chosen as the sportsman of the year. His popularity is on a all time high.

Ah, Sportsman of the Year? Surely this won't go to his head .

I agree that Geesink is a better champion, and the rest too. Geesink in particular because he was the 'dragon-slayer' who felled the mighty Japanese at their own art. Despite this, he remained humble, but not Teddy Riner.

Let's not make this into another X-bashing thread. People like or dislike certain famous sporters partly on a public persona, I understand. We don't have to be wanting to get married to them. With all respect, very few people, I think, would have called Geesink 'humble' and I do not mean this with disrespect to him either. I mention this only because he is deceased and because I do not think I would be doing injustice to him either. I can't even imagine he would have called himself humble. Seriously. Geesink knew very well he was the strongest, and had a self-confidence like granite. You don't typically get that through "being humble". I cannot imagine anyone in his home country even, who speaks the same language as he did, to refer to him in that way. He did not need to be 'humble'; Thinking in terms of humility of a superchampion is more a poetic and romantic kind of thing than realism. But let's not further move on a tangent, and move back to what the thread was really about.

I am Dutch and I agree that humble might not be the right way to call Geesink. But he knew how to behave himself correctly on the tatami. No taunting or humiliating his opponents. I don't know how Riner is outside the judo sphere. I'm only basing my observation on how I've seen him act during competitions. The gesture he made towards Kamikawa was unnecessary but sadly this was not the first time he acted in this matter.

Back to the topic: I really get the impression that Riner is a bit more aggressive (with his judo) whenever he faces a Japanese competitor.I don't think he wants to give them any hope of beating him in the near future. Since most of Japanese judo players practice an a attacking brand of judo. They tend to leave themselves open to get thrown or countered. Just look at his last 2 fights against them (excluding the Shichinohe fight)

Riner vs Inoue in his prime. Now that would have been interesting.
For all his achievements Riner is still a young man who has spent most of his adult life so far in an elite, competitive enviroment, so his "growing up as a responsible adult" has been pushed out of the way in order to win.
Maybe when he is older he will look back and squirm at some of his antics, but at the moment he acts like most other elite sportsmen on the planet.
Genius and genetics with a healthy dose of arrogance. The perfect cocktail for todays elite sportsmen.

I do not agree with the way he acts, in fact he makes himself look like an idiot to most people outside of france,but I can see and understand why he acts like he does sometimes. It is called immaturity and he will be given the space from the enviroment he is in to grow up one day.

Inoue on the other hand is a perfect gentleman. I have met and had randori with him. However this was when he had retired from active competition. What he was like at his peak as regards to attitude I could not tell you.

Inoue was at his peak during the U100 campaign. When he was competing in the O100 division he passed his prime.

Emanuele2 wrote:Inoue was at his peak during the U100 campaign. When he was competing in the O100 division he passed his prime.

I know that. You're stating the obvious.
However Inoue at his peak would have dispatched of most, if not all 100kg+ judoka at the time.

The_Harvest wrote:

judoratt wrote:

The_Harvest wrote:

judoratt wrote:

DCS wrote:

The_Harvest wrote:I heard about Another japanese judo player called Aaron Phillip Wolf (I think one of his parents is European)who is supposed to be "the future" but he is only 16 years old.

He placed 1st at European Cup Cadets last year.

  I have heard he has dual citizenship both German and Japanese. He does have a Jpanese logo on his gi while fighting in the European championships.

It's not the "European championships" but "Europe cadet cup". It's an international cadet tournament the equivalent of a Grand Prix or Grand Slam for the seniors.  [/quot

  Thanks for the correction Was he representing Japan? Do you know where he lives and or trains?

Yes he was representing Japan. He is a second year high school student and will join the Tokai university after his graduation (his high school is affiliated with Tokai). Don't worry he will only represent Japan.
He is part of a generation of Tokai students that is thought to be champion material together with the half-american Matthew Baker (18 years old -90) and Kenya Ohara (18 years old -81. Both took a bronze medal at last years all Japan weight selection. Baker is supposed to have the most potential out of the crop according to l'esprit du judo (French judo magazine).

Baker a the age of 16:


off topic:I'm still puzzled about the whole Elco van der Geest situation. in fact I find it disgraceful.

Update: Matthew Baker just won the Tokyo Grand Slam (his first international tournament!) defeating along the way the 2009 world champion and the 2013 world silver medalist. He has a big future ahead of him and he is only 19 years old.

tafftaz wrote:

Emanuele2 wrote:Inoue was at his peak during the U100 campaign. When he was competing in the O100 division he passed his prime.

I know that. You're stating the obvious.
However Inoue at his peak would have dispatched of most, if not all 100kg+ judoka at the time.

Tafftaz, sorry to say I have to respectfully disagree with you here.  In me humble, it was the move to +100 that caused the end of Inoue’s prime.  I was in the audience at the Kano Cup when he fought open weight and had his shoulder injured (by being badly outpowered and manhandled), after which he was never the same again.  

Inoue was simply too small to fight +100, and it was very, very foolish of his coaches to allow (encourage?  force?) him to do so.  Moving to +100 cost him several more top-level titles, I fervently believe.

And in his prime, Inoue would have been hard for Riner to throw, but I don’t think he ever would have thrown Riner.  I’d grudgingly bet on the Frenchman to win out in the end.

Now Yamashita in his prime vs. Riner, there would be an interesting match…