Regarding left and right handedness

Greetings,

How binary is left or right handedness in Judo, usually? Are some gripping styles particularly favourable to a more ambiguous approach in terms of side favoured?


Regards,

-QS

Oh dear, did we come across some lefties in today's competition ??

Double-lapel grip gives lots of flexibility to attack both left and right. See Angelo Parisi in action for a good example.

Steve Leadbeater wrote:Oh dear, did we come across some lefties in today's competition ??

No, only that I've discovered that in some respects I almost prefer fighting left, hence the looking for middle ground.

jkw wrote:Double-lapel grip gives lots of flexibility to attack both left and right. See Angelo Parisi in action for a good example.

I shall have a look.


Thanks  

Quicksilver wrote:Greetings,

How binary is left or right handedness in Judo, usually? Are some gripping styles particularly favourable to a more ambiguous approach in terms of side favoured?


Regards,

-QS

As noted, double lapel grip can offer some flexibility in that regard. Do you usually use migi shizentai or hidari shizentai ? My approach is to be able to throw left or right from the same grip (I am a righty, so left sleeve and lapel), so uke cannot get a clue from me changing grips or stances.

I've found that the ability to turn easily either way is more important than switching grips. So I train to throw left from a right grip. I turn as well either way (meaning tsurikomi/tai sabaki), and train my students that way as well. That opens up a lot of possibilities for all sorts of attacks from various grip that come up in the process of kumi kata.

The problem with double lapel is a lack of control (or more difficult to maintain control) of uke due to not having a sleeve. Some, like Angelo Parisi, overcame that at the highest levels of Judo. Others have more difficulty, but it is worth working on for sure, particularly with Seoi Nage.

I can appreciate the surprise of fighting left handed persons. Several months ago, I published an article for my students about the power of Hidari kiki hito which you may find of interest. Here is a copy hereunder.

Im a left handed fighter, I love it when they grip with their right hand on my lapel, but I find it difficult to deal with other left handed fighters.

forgeron judo wrote:I can appreciate the surprise of fighting left handed persons. Several months ago, I published an article for my students about the power of Hidari kiki hito which you may find of interest. Here is a copy hereunder.

Not wanting to start a controversy, but the claim on page 3 that Beethoven was left-handed is not credible. It's a notorious faux that goes back to Schindler.

Mozart almost certainly was ambidextrous rather than left-handed.

Rachmaninov equally is frequently mentioned by lefties as a famous example of a left-handed composer, yet another faux as he was right-handed, but clearly due to his unique rhythmic rubato and overlapping play with both hands, he had exceptional skills in piano playing with either hand. But, he was right-handed, let there be no doubt about this.

Einstein was right-handed, and the left-handed claim is mostly an invention of popular culture. Some have claimed that Einstein only wrote with his right-hand but was in fact not right-handed, and some have claimed that pictures would have been printed from a negative in the reverse way. As far as I remember the German archives on Einstein clearly identify him as right-handed.

In the case of da Vinci, it is very hard to say. Given da Vinci's personality and talents, he would almost certainly have trained himself to the extent that he had unusual skills with both hands. Add to this some of his strange features like supposedly writing with both hands at the same time (a feat also related to Musashi in terms of painting), writing in mirrored script, it's virtually impossible to attribute any dominant side to da Vinci.

In terms of judo, I am not even sure if it is that relevant which side one originally is. I am originally right-handed, but I have intentionally trained myself through my life to be ambidextrous. I used both feet effectively in soccer, and do judo both sides. Even there it is not a matter of whether I am right- or left-handed. The dominance of side of techniques will depend on the adversary I face. So I might fight some judoka left, some right, some both sides, all depends on the situation, the nature of their defenses and movements, the way they grip and what they do with it, and their most dangerous techniques, their amount of physical force, etc.

Thank you for having pointed out the dexterity with which some famous persons were gifted with. I too, was born left handed and diligently applied myself to ensure that all my physical exercises were performed either left or right sided. When serving in the army, I had to cope with the bullet extraction mechanism of the riffle which did not accommodate left handed person. In judo, I do make a rule that I shall accomplish tai-sabaki from different points of orientation and I alter my opening stances to offer a right or left displacement. The surprise tokui waza if left for other to discover.

Ben Reinhardt wrote:
I've found that the ability to turn easily either way is more important than switching grips. So I train to throw left from a right grip. I turn as well either way (meaning tsurikomi/tai sabaki), and train my students that way as well.  

And indeed if you assess most people who walk in the door ... and I sometime do ... they naturally prefer to turn in one direction, and do so in that one direction faster than the other.  Can it be trained away? I suppose so, but that leads to questions about how much time and effort should be spent doing so.  

My guess is that there will always be a difference between left and right.  The nagenokata assumes to some extent that both sides should be balanced, but all the other kata are clearly handed ... though not always right handed.  It's a good topic for discussion.

Quicksilver wrote:Greetings,

How binary is left or right handedness in Judo, usually? Are some gripping styles particularly favourable to a more ambiguous approach in terms of side favoured?


Regards,

-QS

I assume that you mean 'binary' in the sense of 'complementary' ?  Your second question illustrates the complexity of your question and the problem in general. It isn't just a matter of sides, but also one of styles.

There's a bit more to it than your average competition video suggests.

When someone starts in judo, a teacher or other senior kyû belt or black belt will tell you and show you a standard grip. In reality the place of that in jûdô is quite more involved. The grip connects our position to that of the opponent. The basic stand or shizen hontiai traditionally was a process that required a long period of learning. It is a lot more than just standing there. When we say right or left standard grip, the implication is that this is accompanies by resp. right or left grip, which are then supposedly meant to support resp. right or left throws. This gripping is called in Japanese kumi-kata.

Obviously it isn't that simple, as it is possible to apply right grip from left position and the other way around. It is also possible to do right throws with left grip or left throws from a right grip.

In addition, our choice can be harmonious (ai-yotsu) or disharmonious (kenka-yotsu). To put it simple, a standard right grip to an opponent who also applies right grip is harmonious, while a standard right grip to an opponent who applies standard left grip is conflicting and will far more lead to grip fighting, as one's grip is more felt as contested. This contest for grip is called in Japanese kumite-arasoi. It follows from the fact that in kenka-yotsu one will feel that because the abnormal way of gripping by the opponent your own throws are hindred. This is not hard to understand. Many throws are more difficult to perform right on a left opponent, or alternatively it is often more difficult to perform left throws from a right position due to the inversion of tsurite (the lifting hand at the lapel) and the hikite (the pulling hand at the sleeve). This implies that now one is obliged to lift with the hand at the arm and the pull with the hand on the lapel. There are exceptions though. Some jûdô throws are easier to perform left from right kumi-kata. One such example is ko-soto-gari. There are a few others (for example, sukui-nage).

To over come the above-descriped conflict one can apply what is called a neutral or universal grip of which there are two standard versions, that is gripping both lapels or both sleeves. I was introduced to double-lapel gripping by Willem Ruska, the notorious Dutch 1972 double-Olympian champion, during a summer camp in Papendal, Holland where also my teacher Hirano was present. Ruska was problably the most famous exponent of this double-lapel grip. After him came Parisi. The reason the double-grip was welcome to me was because of sever elbow injuries from jûji-gatame. If you suffer from a right golf-elbow (inside elbow tendinitis) or acute rupture, you can't properly use the right hand for tsurite. It has no force it hurts, and the attacks and resistance from the opponent are very hurtful and damaging to the repair of the injury. All that pain and stuff is a lot less for the arm that works as the hikite. Thus in such cases, it is logical to avoid pain and injury, to switch sides and hold left kumikata instead of right, if the injury is to the right elbow. However, if doing so, there is an important problem, namely that one is not tyically trained and skilled in performing right throws from left kumi-kata. It is realistic that as a kyû holder it requires 6-10 months of training to learn how to do a throw from the other side. There is a much easier way to do this, and that is the double-lapel grip. Since both hands are in tsurite-position, it is properly easier to use one of them as hikite, since you can benefit from mirroring action withotu physically changing anything. Also, when injured, in this case the right elbow, even though it remains i tsurite position, the impact of the opponents are less dramatic because the other arm can sufficiently take over.

Many of the things the double lapel grip can do the double sleeve grip can do too. However, it is less effective and has been less popular. In this position both hands are in hikite position. It is more difficult to make one of those hands perform tsurite position while in the hikite position, than doing the reverse when they are in the double-lapel position. However, in recent years, this position has surprisingly regained some popularity among a handful of champions, notably one Korean. Before that it was very rare. I have seen 1976 Olympic champion, the Russian Nevzorov do it, but apart from that there are extremely few examples.

Of course, you have to bear one important thing in mind. Even though some grips may also facilitate doing throws to the other side, this has little impact and meaning unless you effectively also master those throws to the other side !  I think that unfortunately many people are ignoring this important thing.

Something else that is important, but which takes the discussion to a more advanced level, is the fact there is somewhat of a discrepancy between the traditional-pedagogical judo approach and the scientific analysis. The establishment of contact is essential in judo and makes two separate ahtletes into a more or less single entity which could be called the "athlete couple" or less smoothly, the "couple of athletes". The construction of jûdô as it is is educational and not scientific. You thus have to be careful. To better understand the meaning and impact of this 'contact' in the overall process, I gladly refer to the work of professor Sacripanti, who has done an excellent job investigating and elucidating the science behind these phenomena.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Dutch Budo wrote:Im a left handed fighter, I love it when they grip with their right hand on my lapel, but I find it difficult to deal with other left handed fighters.

That's interesting, the basic right vs left strategy is to control inside position on the lapel first...good thing you love that!

Lefties deal with righties on a day to day basis in Judo, but not so many lefties. Hence, lefties tend to be better at dealing with righties.

BillC wrote:

Ben Reinhardt wrote:
I've found that the ability to turn easily either way is more important than switching grips. So I train to throw left from a right grip. I turn as well either way (meaning tsurikomi/tai sabaki), and train my students that way as well.  

And indeed if you assess most people who walk in the door ... and I sometime do ... they naturally prefer to turn in one direction, and do so in that one direction faster than the other.  Can it be trained away? I suppose so, but that leads to questions about how much time and effort should be spent doing so.  

My guess is that there will always be a difference between left and right.  The nagenokata assumes to some extent that both sides should be balanced, but all the other kata are clearly handed ... though not always right handed.  It's a good topic for discussion.

I'm strongly right handed, although that doesn't have so much to do with a "natural" turning direction. I usually have students try turning both ways, and as you point out, a lot have a way that "feels" better, and I go with that in terms of righty or lefty. But in any case, everyone does tai sabaki both ways and learns to throw left and right turning and trains both ways.

Personally, I trained my self to turn for left handed throws later in my judo career. I just stopped or nearly stopped practicing right forward throws (which really rotate to the left, LOL). It got to the point that I felt clumsy turning for a RH throw, which was strange. So now I don't' really notice the difference so much. But that is mostly from a RH grip.

Nagenokata...from a physical education point of view, balance between sides makes sense...kata is supposed to supply in training what randori lacks and vice versa, and as most judoka strongly favor one side over the other, maybe that is a part of the equation?

Were all Japanese warriors trained to handle weapons right handed? I wonder...might explain the right handedness of the Kime No Kata?

[quote="Ben Reinhardt"]

BillC wrote:

Were all Japanese warriors trained to handle weapons right handed? I wonder...might explain the right handedness of the Kime No Kata?

That's excellent what NBK mentioned in his (excellent) nihonjujutsu clinic a couple months back. He noted "there were no left handed samurai."

He's probably right ... not just because he studies :yawn: that stuff nearly all the time ... but I guess there might even be clues in the language.

Based on my meager understanding "jouzu" (上手) is an adjective meaning "skillful" and "heta" (下手) means not-so-good-at ... but I noticed the literal reading of the kanji is upper hand and lower hand ... as in gripping a sword perhaps? And which hand is on top? The right one of course. So your observation is "why train for a left handed sword attack when there ain't gonna be one?" *

But even stepping outside the Japanese frame and into the world of modern physical education, some formally trained sensei have cautioned me always to understand that nearly no one will have the same feel left and right for a given technique, even if they manage to make the differences undetectable. Our brains are just built that way.

So the best have advised to develop both left and right capability, but maybe not the same techniques, and not to expect to perfect each side in the same way, it's just a reality we should understand and include in our training.

* Rest in peace Sakakibara-sensei, I note Tom's notice about your passing this last week with sorrow. You gave me the best advice I have ever been given in judo "Bill-san, just trip him." But you STILL made us do 500 cuts right AND 500 cuts left with the jo that one time ... well, at least my screaming biceps took attention away from the aching numbness in my legs.

BillC wrote:

Ben Reinhardt wrote:

BillC wrote:

Were all Japanese warriors trained to handle weapons right handed? I wonder...might explain the right handedness of the Kime No Kata?

That's excellent what NBK mentioned in his (excellent) nihonjujutsu clinic a couple months back.  He noted "there were no left handed samurai."

He's probably right ... not just because he studies :yawn: that stuff nearly all the time ... but I guess there might even be clues in the language.

Based on my meager understanding "jouzu" (上手) is an adjective meaning "skillful" and "heta" (下手) means not-so-good-at ... but I noticed the literal reading of the kanji is upper hand and lower hand ... as in gripping a sword perhaps?  And which hand is on top?  The right one of course.  So your observation is "why train for a left handed sword attack when there ain't gonna be one?" *



So the best have advised to develop both left and right capability, but maybe not the same techniques, and not to expect to perfect each side in the same way, it's just a reality we should understand and include in our training.

That is the approach I take. Everyone learns opposite side Ippon Seoi Nage in that vein (at least at our dojo). And Sode Tsurikomi Goshi as well, plus Uki and O and Tsuri Goshi. Then they tend to develop the one they do best.

I even have one young woman who has a real knack for doing a left Harai Goshi or Uchi Mata from a right grip. It all just depends on the individual to some degree, something not so many people even attempt to do.

Ben Reinhardt wrote:

Dutch Budo wrote:Im a left handed fighter, I love it when they grip with their right hand on my lapel, but I find it difficult to deal with other left handed fighters.

That's interesting, the basic right vs left strategy is to control inside position on the lapel first...good thing you love that!

Lefties deal with righties on a day to day basis in Judo, but not so many lefties. Hence, lefties tend to be better at dealing with righties.

Yeah true, pretty much every randori I spent fighting for that inside position and working off of it when I got it. Even though I can demonstrate throws left and right, I am almost exclusively left handed in competitions. So yeah your observations are correct. Out of the group of 20 or so people I used to train judo with, only 1 played left handed as well, but he was mixing it up more than me.

BillC wrote:

Ben Reinhardt wrote:

BillC wrote:

Were all Japanese warriors trained to handle weapons right handed? I wonder...might explain the right handedness of the Kime No Kata?

That's excellent what NBK mentioned in his (excellent) nihonjujutsu clinic a couple months back.  He noted "there were no left handed samurai."

He's probably right ... not just because he studies :yawn: that stuff nearly all the time ... but I guess there might even be clues in the language.

Based on my meager understanding "jouzu" (上手) is an adjective meaning "skillful" and "heta" (下手) means not-so-good-at ... but I noticed the literal reading of the kanji is upper hand and lower hand ... as in gripping a sword perhaps?  And which hand is on top?  The right one of course.  So your observation is "why train for a left handed sword attack when there ain't gonna be one?" *

But even stepping outside the Japanese frame and into the world of modern physical education, some formally trained sensei have cautioned me always to understand that nearly no one will have the same feel left and right for a given technique, even if they manage to make the differences undetectable.  Our brains are just built that way.

So the best have advised to develop both left and right capability, but maybe not the same techniques, and not to expect to perfect each side in the same way, it's just a reality we should understand and include in our training.

* Rest in peace Sakakibara-sensei, I note Tom's notice about your passing this last week with sorrow.  You gave me the best advice I have ever been given in judo "Bill-san, just trip him."  But you STILL made us do 500 cuts right AND 500 cuts left with the jo that one time ... well, at least my screaming biceps took attention away from the aching numbness in my legs.

Not sure I get the upper hand and lower hand - but there's always the Gripping Hand*

Not being overtly right handed doesn't mean there weren't left hand techniques - many basic weapons are used ambidextrously (jo, bo, etc) so the swordsman must respond to left and right attacks - any offside weakness will out and be attacked.

Some above have mentioned it - lefties don't necessarily like lefties.  Sometimes someone will shift to a left grip on me, and often if I just shift, too, they'll shift back to a right hand grip, which I prefer.  That indicates to me that if I demonstrated weakness in a left grip, or tried to fight from a right vs left grip, I might give them something they could exploit.

NBK

* with apologies to Larry Niven

Ben Reinhardt wrote:

Nagenokata...from a physical education point of view, balance between sides makes sense...kata is supposed to supply in training what randori lacks and vice versa, and as most judoka strongly favor one side over the other, maybe that is a part of the equation?

Were all Japanese warriors trained to handle weapons right handed? I wonder...might explain the right handedness of the Kime No Kata?

Ben, there exist documents that show that Kanô indicated at several moments in time that the jûdô kata established by him --thus the original jûdô kata (i.e. nage-no-kata, katame-no-kata, shôbu-no-kata and later kime-no-kata, jû-no-kata, and seiryoku zen'yô kokumin taiku)-- should be practiced from both sides. For unknown reasons strangely this is today only done for nage-no-kata and the tandoku-renshû of seiryoku zen'yô kokumin taiiku; however, the kime-shiki part is sometimes still performed both sides; on the other hand the jû-shiki part seems to be less favored for ambidextrous practice, probably because of the difficulty to remember all those turns to the other side.

A logical question one might have is about the realism of ambidextrous practice of the weapons part in kime-no-kata. It is certainly not so that there are no precedents of handling swords with the left hand in Japanese martial arts. In Niten ichi-ryû kenjutsu ("The sword school of the strategy of two heavens as one") one fights simultaneously with two swords, katana in the right hand, wakizashi in the left hand.







There are precedents of this outside this style of sword fighting.

For example, in the final scene of Kurosawa's Sanjurô, Mifune Toshirô draws the katana (nukitsuke) "with the wrong hand" in the difficult gyaku-te technique, where the katana is drawn with the left hand even though it is worn to the normal left side. This is far more difficult than performing a simple shômen uchi (called kiri-oroshi in Kôdôkan jûdô) as is done in the final technique of kime-no-kata.



You can see the technique explained here (sorry, it's in Italian):

http://www.musubi.it/index.php/musubi/107-sanjuro?start=5


(Note: It is possible to elaborate further about this. Even though Mifune Toshirô was a student of Sugino Yoshio of Tenshin Shōden Katori Shintō-ryū, it has been argued that the above technique does not feature in the iaijutsu of this school. Some have even argued that it would be fictional. I don't believe it's fictionall; Sanjurô is not "Kill Bill")


I presume that the loss of ambidextrous practice of kata in jûdô partly has to do with the evolution of kata practice towards kata demonstration. Unlike what many people today think, kata was never intended as something for demonstration purposes, but as something to practice and improve your own skill, just like how you practice randori. When you implement ambidextrous performance of kata, you double the time people have to watch. While this is still naturally so in nage-no-kata, the total length of ambidextrous performance of nage-no-kata is is similar to the single-sided performance of katame-no-kata, for example. Practicing katame-no-kata from both sides, would make is double as long. Same for kime-no-kata and jû-no-kata. Likely this was considered as too boring for a non-jûdô audience to watch. There is another problem though. In nage-no-kata, the left version of the technique immediately follows the right-handed practice. Because of the way the movements are constructed this is easily possible. However, this is not so for the other kata. In the other kata, first the entire right-handed version is completed, and only then comes the left-handed version. That is not difficult to understand. Take for example katame-no-kata. While for the chokes, it would be feasible to alternate between the right and the left version (at least for the chokes from behind), this is not possible for the osae-komi-waza (with the exception of (kami-shihô- and kuzure-kami-shihô-gatame) for the simple reason that you are at the wrong side of the body for the left version. You would then have to get up first and walk around to the other side of uke. A similar problem exists for jû-no-kata. You can't perform tsuki-dashi left after tsuki-dashi right since at the end position of the first technique, tori and uke are too close and in the wrong spot for a repetition of tsuki-dashi. The same applies for most other techniques of jû-no-kata. Thus the only feasible way is to repeat the version from the opposite side after first completing the version to the right. Kime-no-kata is possible to alternate right/left techniques. However, we know from kime-shiki that for some reason that is not done, and the left-side version probably would follow completion of the right-handed version.

[quote="Cichorei Kano"]

Ben Reinhardt wrote:

....
A logical question one might have is about the realism of ambidextrous practice of the weapons part in kime-no-kata. It is certainly not so that there are no precedents of handling swords with the left hand in Japanese martial arts. In Niten ichi-ryû kenjutsu ("The sword school of the strategy of two heavens as one") one fights simultaneously with two swords, katana in the right hand, wakizashi in the left hand.

......

There are precedents of this outside this style of sword fighting.

For example, in the final scene of Kurosawa's Sanjurô, Mifune Toshirô draws the katana (nukitsuke) "with the wrong hand" in the difficult gyaku-te technique, where the katana is drawn with the left hand even though it is worn to the normal left side. This is far more difficult than performing a simple shômen uchi (called kiri-oroshi in Kôdôkan jûdô) as is done in the final technique of kime-no-kata.



You can see the technique explained here (sorry, it's in Italian):

http://www.musubi.it/index.php/musubi/107-sanjuro?start=5


(Note: It is possible to elaborate further about this. Even though Mifune Toshirô was a student of Sugino Yoshio of Tenshin Shōden Katori Shintō-ryū, it has been argued that the above technique does not feature in the iaijutsu of this school. Some have even argued that it would be fictional. I don't believe it's fictionall; Sanjurô is not "Kill Bill")

......

Interesting post, thanks.

I'm not sure Niten ichi-ryû kenjutsu is a good example - AFAIK the short sword stays in the weak / left hand, and there is no back and forth.

I have studied koryu that have off-hand (in modern gun parlance, weak hand, i.e., not the predominate hand, meaning the left hand) techniques in unusual situations: pressed in close, strong right hand seized or hurt, rear attacks, etc. These are not typically studied as basics or showcased, as they are advanced techniques for advanced practitioners.

The very nature of the katana means that the right hand / cross hand draw is normal, as the saya (scabbard) typically is pulled back with the left hand to clear the blade. I can draw with either hand - but it is not easy - and my arms are significantly longer than the average ancient Japanese' arms.

None of this negates your points outside this limited diversion.

NBK

NBK wrote:

BillC wrote:

Ben Reinhardt wrote:

BillC wrote:

Were all Japanese warriors trained to handle weapons right handed? I wonder...might explain the right handedness of the Kime No Kata?

That's excellent what NBK mentioned in his (excellent) nihonjujutsu clinic a couple months back.  He noted "there were no left handed samurai."

He's probably right ... not just because he studies :yawn: that stuff nearly all the time ... but I guess there might even be clues in the language.

Based on my meager understanding "jouzu" (上手) is an adjective meaning "skillful" and "heta" (下手) means not-so-good-at ... but I noticed the literal reading of the kanji is upper hand and lower hand ... as in gripping a sword perhaps?  And which hand is on top?  The right one of course.  So your observation is "why train for a left handed sword attack when there ain't gonna be one?" *

But even stepping outside the Japanese frame and into the world of modern physical education, some formally trained sensei have cautioned me always to understand that nearly no one will have the same feel left and right for a given technique, even if they manage to make the differences undetectable.  Our brains are just built that way.

So the best have advised to develop both left and right capability, but maybe not the same techniques, and not to expect to perfect each side in the same way, it's just a reality we should understand and include in our training.

* Rest in peace Sakakibara-sensei, I note Tom's notice about your passing this last week with sorrow.  You gave me the best advice I have ever been given in judo "Bill-san, just trip him."  But you STILL made us do 500 cuts right AND 500 cuts left with the jo that one time ... well, at least my screaming biceps took attention away from the aching numbness in my legs.

Not sure I get the upper hand and lower hand - but there's always the Gripping Hand*

Not being overtly right handed doesn't mean there weren't left hand techniques - many basic weapons are used ambidextrously (jo, bo, etc) so the swordsman must respond to left and right attacks - any offside weakness will out and be attacked.

Some above have mentioned it - lefties don't necessarily like lefties.  Sometimes someone will shift to a left grip on me, and often if I just shift, too, they'll shift back to a right hand grip, which I prefer.  That indicates to me that if I demonstrated weakness in a left grip, or tried to fight from a right vs left grip, I might give them something they could exploit.

NBK

* with apologies to Larry Niven

LOL at the Motie reference!

The whole switching grip thing is discouraged in "modern competitive Judo", although I switch grips in randori (don't compete anymore so far...) quite a bit..didn't do it so much in competition, though.

Most judoka who train seriously for competition will have a system for dealing with left vs right situations and won't willingly give up gripping on their preferred side, which can make for some lengthy kumi kata exhanges interspersed with awkward looking attacks from odd angles.

Regarding the handedness of samurai/warriors/et al., I imagine it might have been as it is in Judo...left handed writing perhaps but right handed sword handling, or as in Judo a lot of lefties are right handed...most, in fact. But as in Judo, one would of course have had to be ambidextrous in terms of attack/defense or pay the price...

Ben Reinhardt wrote:

The whole switching grip thing is discouraged in "modern competitive Judo", although I switch grips in randori (don't compete anymore so far...) quite a bit..didn't do it so much in competition, though.

Most judoka who train seriously for competition will have a system for dealing with left vs right situations and won't willingly give up gripping on their preferred side, which can make for some lengthy kumi kata exhanges interspersed with awkward looking attacks from odd angles.

Regarding the handedness of samurai/warriors/et al., I imagine it might have been as it is in Judo...left handed writing perhaps but right handed sword handling, or as in Judo a lot of lefties are right handed...most, in fact. But as in Judo, one would of course have had to be ambidextrous in terms of attack/defense or pay the price...

Yes, I think it is important to differentiate between left-sided techniques and use of the left hand. Further, dealing with attacks by opponents adopting a left posture versus challenges from truly left sided players are somewhat different. What I guess I am trying to propose, is that use of both sides does not make one ambidextrous, and that a pool of technical skills can still be one-sided in posture and still deal with attacks from both sides? Does that seem about right?

It's actually a common posture on our mat, someone recently said "I like to come here because there are no lefties south of your club." Our best players were trained from childhood to play lefty, and so they are.

You are in my way of thinking correct Mr. B&R, the defender does not necessarily change his stance and invert his brain to deal with opposite handedness. In fact, with all due respect to Mr. Natural, a standing rule in our club is not to do so ... that a black belt on the dominant side becomes a green belt on the not-so-skillful side ... and I guess we have enough lefties, and the difference obvious enough, that the backwards person is rewarded with flying lessons. Instead, we do train different kumikata for kenkayotsu and aiyoutsu as you note.

Exceptions exist and are wonderful in their place ... the "exit-entry" against a collar-gripping righty by use of left ogoshi for example. And certainly some people are superhuman even standing on their heads. It is cool to (very) occasionally pull a left osotogari out of ... thin air ... and flatten someone who is usually above one's league, but my guess is that if it became habit it would be dealt with quickly and the advantage of surprise lost.

How much do you focus on being able to fight from both sides? It seems quite often at high level play, that even right handed players will end up in a left handed grip. The way I was always instructed was to have one or two throws from the left side, but is it common for high level players to be nearly as proficient on both sides with all their throws?

ccwscott wrote:How much do you focus on being able to fight from both sides?  It seems quite often at high level play, that even right handed players will end up in a left handed grip.  The way I was always instructed was to have one or two throws from the left side, but is it common for high level players to be nearly as proficient on both sides with all their throws?

No, it is not common at all. It's actually extremely rare. Most successful competitors who master a couple of techniques to the other side have done so for a particular reason, such as:

- injury forced them
- the particular technique rather than really 'right' or 'left' is somewhat neutral or facilitates doing it from the opposite side (for example, yoko-tomoe-nage)
- a strategic planning in the case of exceptional rivalry between two champions with the outcome of the match difficult to predict (Frank Wieneke's left seoi-nage on Neil Adams in the final of the LA 1984 Olympics in the -78 kg class)

Angelo Parisi was one of the exceptional jûdôka who regularly displayed highly technical throws from both sides. Particularly his seoi-otoshi was known to be devastating irrespective of whether it was the right or left version. But even Parisi, did not master half the gokyô from both sides with the same level of skill.

Cichorei Kano wrote:

ccwscott wrote:How much do you focus on being able to fight from both sides?  It seems quite often at high level play, that even right handed players will end up in a left handed grip.  The way I was always instructed was to have one or two throws from the left side, but is it common for high level players to be nearly as proficient on both sides with all their throws?

No, it is not common at all. It's actually extremely rare. Most successful competitors who master a couple of techniques to the other side have done so for a particular reason, such as:

- injury forced them
- the particular technique rather than really 'right' or 'left' is somewhat neutral or facilitates doing it from the opposite side (for example, yoko-tomoe-nage)
- a strategic planning in the case of exceptional rivalry between two champions with the outcome of the match difficult to predict (Frank Wieneke's left seoi-nage on Neil Adams in the final of the LA 1984 Olympics in the -78 kg class)

Angelo Parisi was one of the exceptional jûdôka who regularly displayed highly technical throws from both sides. Particularly his seoi-otoshi was known to be devastating irrespective of whether it was the right or left version. But even Parisi, did not master half the gokyô from both sides with the same level of skill.

Do you encourage students to practice throws from both right and left sides and if so do you only start doing this once they are at a certain level?
I ask as throwing left sided has never really been encouraged in my club but, now that I am 2nd kyu, I am trying to practice both sides equally.

Good evening,

My apologies that it has taken me this long to get back to this topic (the preliminary HSC has been eating my spare time), and many thanks to everyone who has replied. Your comments and suggestions are of great interest to me and very much appreciated.  I've been trying working with double sleeve and double lapel grips of late but tend to end up almost perpetually changing grips anyway; which is more of a product my still trying to work out what does and doesn't work with my Judo in general than anything specifically grip related.

I meant binary more in the sense of black and white; a better way to phrase the query might have been how much does dominance of either side in, for example, handwriting, translate to one's Judo- but that has been addressed too.

Thank you! Interesting discussion.

Warm regards,


-QS