Enjoyed this vid shows why you need to defend in both "turtle and belly down"
So what do you call the throw at 30sec and the final Ippon throw.
Think there may be some interesting ideas
![Razz](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_razz.gif)
medo wrote:
Enjoyed this vid shows why you need to defend in both "turtle and belly down"
So what do you call the throw at 30sec and the final Ippon throw.
Think there may be some interesting ideas![]()
Cichorei Kano wrote:medo wrote:
Enjoyed this vid shows why you need to defend in both "turtle and belly down"
So what do you call the throw at 30sec and the final Ippon throw.
Think there may be some interesting ideas![]()
He, he, he, identifying the first throw is not novice work, as it is not a throw from the gokyô and it is specific henka most people would not be familiar with. It's easy to see why people would come up with many likely scenarios like tani-otoshi, ko-soto-gake or yoko-otoshi, etc, but it's none of these. It is in fact a specific and known henka of kuchiki-taoshi.
The final throw is neither uchi-mata, nor hane-goshi. Clearly uchi-mata is an obvious choice, but it isn't. It's would virtually be impossible to throw like that with uchi-mata. Why ? Because the throw is way off. Tori's center of mass is way above that of uke which is problematic to effect uchi-mata. He compensates for that using all the possible force of his tsurite, but that is enough. He can only really effect the throw despite the initial lift with his strong leg, thanks to the work and rotation of his upper body after that life. It's hidari-uchi-mata-makikomi.
medo wrote:
Oh CK, you came in a little early thought we would get a lot of tani's and ko soto gaki's and was not to sure myself with my thoughts of a ko uchimata having stopped it at 1;02
Cichorei Kano wrote:medo wrote:
Oh CK, you came in a little early thought we would get a lot of tani's and ko soto gaki's and was not to sure myself with my thoughts of a ko uchimata having stopped it at 1;02
Sorry. Shall I delete my post ?
You have to admit though it's not that unexpected. Who would be on the JudoForum on Christmas eve ? So I thought: only sociopaths and idiots like me.
medo wrote: one article is entitled judo and the occult!? should have them friday.
Mountain Storm wrote:Interested to know how the first throw can be a henka of kuchiki-taoshi ?
Both of tori's hand are on uke's lapel, there was no grab of uke's leg from either the inside or outside.
http://www.kodokan.org/e_waza/12kuchikitaoshi.html
Mountain Storm wrote:Medo, are you referring to a post of mine on the BJA forum, I do not work for the BJA, I'm just a member
Mountain Storm wrote:I agree Medo (you meant p35 not 32) I also was confused when the technique on p36 was called sumi gaeshi (I thought if you grabbed the belt this technique became a version of hikikomi gaeshi - unless CK tells me otherwise
)
Mountain Storm wrote:I agree Medo (you meant p35 not 32) I also was confused when the technique on p36 was called sumi gaeshi (I thought if you grabbed the belt this technique became a version of hikikomi gaeshi - unless CK tells me otherwise
)
medo wrote:Mountain Storm wrote:I agree Medo (you meant p35 not 32) I also was confused when the technique on p36 was called sumi gaeshi (I thought if you grabbed the belt this technique became a version of hikikomi gaeshi - unless CK tells me otherwise
)
I was looking more at ushirokesa on p32 and refering to "whats in a name", implies a near enough approach which is a pet hate of mine.
Ck will give you the low down i'm sure on hikikomi/sumi I have been wrong in the past and learnt from him and love the thoroughness of his wonderful replies.
Mountain Storm wrote:medo wrote:Mountain Storm wrote:I agree Medo (you meant p35 not 32) I also was confused when the technique on p36 was called sumi gaeshi (I thought if you grabbed the belt this technique became a version of hikikomi gaeshi - unless CK tells me otherwise
)
I was looking more at ushirokesa on p32 and refering to "whats in a name", implies a near enough approach which is a pet hate of mine.
Ck will give you the low down i'm sure on hikikomi/sumi I have been wrong in the past and learnt from him and love the thoroughness of his wonderful replies.
yes that's what I thought you meant - that's on p35 (p32 is a events page) ?
Cichorei Kano wrote:Mountain Storm wrote:I agree Medo (you meant p35 not 32) I also was confused when the technique on p36 was called sumi gaeshi (I thought if you grabbed the belt this technique became a version of hikikomi gaeshi - unless CK tells me otherwise
)
No, it is incorrect, but it is an "easy way of putting it", just like saying "sasae is blocking just above the foot, and hiza-guruma on the knee area (just up/under/right on). This works for when someone needs an easy mnemonic, but it is incorrect. It is possible to perform sumi-gaeshi while grabbing the belt, just like it is possible to perform hikkomi-gaeshi without grabbing the belt. A classical example of sumi-gaeshi with belt grabbing is when using sumi-gaeshi as a kaeshi-waza to tai-otoshi; in that case, grabbing the belt is recommended.
I am not making any statement though about exactly as which the technique shown in the magazine should be identified. Pictures do not always tell the whole story
Mountain Storm wrote:Cichorei Kano wrote:Mountain Storm wrote:I agree Medo (you meant p35 not 32) I also was confused when the technique on p36 was called sumi gaeshi (I thought if you grabbed the belt this technique became a version of hikikomi gaeshi - unless CK tells me otherwise
)
No, it is incorrect, but it is an "easy way of putting it", just like saying "sasae is blocking just above the foot, and hiza-guruma on the knee area (just up/under/right on). This works for when someone needs an easy mnemonic, but it is incorrect. It is possible to perform sumi-gaeshi while grabbing the belt, just like it is possible to perform hikkomi-gaeshi without grabbing the belt. A classical example of sumi-gaeshi with belt grabbing is when using sumi-gaeshi as a kaeshi-waza to tai-otoshi; in that case, grabbing the belt is recommended.
I am not making any statement though about exactly as which the technique shown in the magazine should be identified. Pictures do not always tell the whole story
I was going by "Kodokan Judo Throwing Techniques" by Toshiro Daigo - "The key point for telling these techniques apart lies in whether tori grips uke's back (sumi-gaeshi) or whether he grips the back of uke's belt (hikikomi-gaeshi)...
Cichorei Kano wrote:
The final throw is neither uchi-mata, nor hane-goshi. Clearly uchi-mata is an obvious choice, but it isn't. It's would virtually be impossible to throw like that with uchi-mata. Why ? Because the throw is way off. Tori's center of mass is way above that of uke which is problematic to effect uchi-mata. He compensates for that using all the possible force of his tsurite, but that is enough. He can only really effect the throw despite the initial lift with his strong leg, thanks to the work and rotation of his upper body after that life. It's hidari-uchi-mata-makikomi.
|
|