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    Strength and Grip Training for Judo

    Q mystic
    Q mystic


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    Post by Q mystic Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:40 pm

    Regarding the Tudor Bompa...Isn't the oly lifting more for just stabilized strengthening and making the body more durable rather than actual judo strengthening anyways? Thats what I thought I read in the last judoforum and was actually quite content with that, for crying out loud.lol

    Isnt it do judo randori and specific drills for the judo strengthening, vs bigger or stronger guys for strength maybe, and then do the oly lifts to keep a balanced approach, as well as build confidence in releasing strength? Of course, you would fit in extra, particular, strengthening if needed.
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    Guest
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    Post by Guest Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:00 am

    Taiobroshi wrote:I know this circumvents the question, but increasing your level of movement both when connected and when negotiating grips makes it much more difficult to break your grip- the opponent has to find the correct angle to break your grip or have sufficient strength to break it inefficiently. There is an upper limit to how strong your personal grips can be and a much higher limit to how strong the muscles involved in grip breaking can be. While increasing grip strength is a good idea, I think it is also productive to work on moving in a way that discourages grip breaks in the first place.

    Again, this is a me thing, but my training partner and I focus more on grip endurance than the power of the individual grips. If I feel my grip about to broken I usually concede the grip, re-position my body, and regrip. This which catches people off guard, especially in cases where the opponent was so focused on trying to muscle me. For light-weights like you and I, smaller hand size also favors this strategy since excessively thick judogi make it harder to maintain a strong grip.
    This is how I feel on the matter. Over the years I've learned a lot of grip fighting strategies but these days it's not important to me. Like you said, condede the grip and regrip. I usually end up regripping from a position of strength. Of course, I'm saying this from the context of a recreational judoka which I'm guessing over 90% of us are.
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    Roscovitch


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    Location : Harlan Kentucky

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    Post by Roscovitch Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:45 am

    New to the forum, but I thought I could add a little to the discussion. First, I was NSCA certified in a former life and spent many years powerlifting. In regards to deadlifts, I would say that using straps may be a mistake. Developing grip strength for deadlifts requires a little time, but it can be done. I've seen a 200 lb guy rep 700 lbs. Be patient. All the other grip training ideas are great too. I love gi or towel pull ups.

    In regards to Tudor Bompa, strength training mentality, and Oly lifts, I thought I would challenge a few things. Read Mark Rippetoe's take on the NSCA (who certify ALL strength coaches). Basically they over complicated strength training to the point that sport coaches could no longer provide workouts, thus guaranteeing them a job. As long as a person does an exercise explosively on the concentric phase, it is developing maximal power. To assume that Oly lifts are the only way to do this is faulty logic. The body doesn't know which weightlifting sport it is doing, it just knows it is under stress. Olympic lifts a incredibly technique oriented, and require alot of coaching (thus requiring a trainer). This is counter productive as one could simplify the lifts and focus technical training on there sport. Also, periodization is difficult with combat sports because it was intially designed for a development of athletes in there off season. Combat athletes have no off season where they do not practice. Therefore, they must be trained the same as an in season athlete. This means that intensity should stay low, making olympic lifting an issue. My practical experience found that the excessive engagement of forearm muscles in the transition to the catch phase of olympic lifts, combined with the forearm stress of judo training resulted in some SERIOUS tendonitis.

    I apologise for the length of this, and I am open to others opinions. Basically, if you do a well balanced workout, put maximal effort in the concentric phase of exercises, watch your intensity level, you do not need to worry about "sport specificity" and "explosive training"
    rjohnston411
    rjohnston411


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    Post by rjohnston411 Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:27 am

    Olympic lifts, at least the power versions from a hang position, are not all that complicated to learn. It is not as if we are trying for perfect form, just good.
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    Roscovitch


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    Post by Roscovitch Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:56 am

    But form is always important in a dynamic motion- if you don't believe me, do a you tube search of Crossfit- fail to see what happens when your form is poor. Lack of form leads to injury. Improvement in olympic lifts is more based on technique than strength. I like Alwyn Cosgroves take on it. The catch phase is where the issues come in. If your goal is to improve your ham/gluet/spinal erector strength, you could do high pulls rather than cleans, which involves all the same work and benefits, without the issues associated with learning the catch phase. However, if a person can already perform olympic lifts, have at it. As long as you know they are not they aren't the be all end all of strength training. The myth of bodybuilding exercises slowing you down has to do with the way bodybuilders train, not there exercise selection. Lots of bodybuilders do powercleans and push presses. They train at a very high volume/ intensity to create hypertrophy. This causes there muscles to be engorged with blood, tightening them up. They also spend all there time lifting, not training sports. They do not do well relaxing muscles, particularly the traps. This usually slows you down, as we all know tightening muscles reduces speed. Exercise selecion is not as important as training intensity.
    rjohnston411
    rjohnston411


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    Post by rjohnston411 Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:10 am

    It has been shown higher weight on a barbell lift does not carryover. Ergo, weight on the bardoes not matter after a certain point.

    We are not weightlifters, so perfect form does not matter as good will suffice.

    I was never great at weightlifting but I learned the lifts and am partial to power cleans/snatches and high pulls.
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    Roscovitch


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    Post by Roscovitch Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:40 am

    I would be interested in the parameters of a study that stated that increased lifting ability does not correlate to increased strength in a given sport. Feel free to send me the link. The issue with form in olympic lifts is first and foremost one of safety. When form is not good in the catch phase, multiple injuries can occur. Check youtube for videos of olympic weightlifting injuries. Many can be devastating. Clearly, you enjoy olympic lifts. I can respect that. My original premise was that for the newcomer to strength training, who is trying to improve there athletic ability, time is generally better spent on more standard lifts, thus freeing up more time for technique practice in the chosen sport. This does not even take into account the fact that power and strength are not the only thing you should train for Judo. Strength/ power endurance would be equally important, as you need your strength to hold out through a match. Surely you are not recommending oly lifts forstrength/ endurance training? The form breakdown of a dynamic technique like that would result in serious risk of injury.
    rjohnston411
    rjohnston411


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    Post by rjohnston411 Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:30 am

    Note how I said beyond a certain point. Bondrachuck, former head throwing coach in the USSR, has tables showing beyond around 60', the squats benefits level off.

    In the hammer throw, Yurl Sedykh was a phenom who is still probably the best. He was not known for being especially strong, though probably stronger than most. In spite of this, he threw world records.
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    Roscovitch


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    Post by Roscovitch Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:56 am

    Could you send me the tables? I am not asking as a challenge to win a debate. I am legitimately interested in his findings. Just out of curiosity, do you utilize oly lifts? If so, with what training frequency. And what frequency do you practice Judo? Do you have issues with overtraining?
    I realize we have gone WAY beyond the scope of the original poster. Perhaps we should continue the discussion through personal messages.

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