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Ben Reinhardt
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Cichorei Kano
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    Scientific analysis of backward fall skills between novice and experienced jûdôka

    Cichorei Kano
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    Scientific analysis of backward fall skills between novice and experienced jûdôka Empty Scientific analysis of backward fall skills between novice and experienced jûdôka

    Post by Cichorei Kano Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:01 am

    A new scientific study is currently in print that deals with the biomechanics of the backward breakfall, and specifically compares experienced and novice jûdôka.

    The study was conducted by Koshida Sentarô from Ryôtokuji University (located in Urayasu, Chiba), and colleagues from Tsukuba University. Here's the abstract:


    Background and Study Aim: Head injuries sustained during the sport of judo have gained significant public attention because of the incidence of severe cases among novice judokas in Japan. The judo backward breakfall skill may play an important role in decreasing the number of head injuries. Therefore, more effective ways to acquire appropriate judo backward breakfall skills are needed, and this requires a greater understanding of the breakfall movement. The aim of the study was to investigate the kinematics and muscle activation patterns during a judo backward breakfall in experienced and novice judokas.
    Material and Methods: Eleven experienced judokas and 13 novice judo judokas volunteered for the study. Three-dimensional kinematic data were collected while participants performed five sets of backward breakfalls. We documented head-, neck-, trunk-, hip and knee-angle time profiles and electromyographic activities of the sternocleidmastoid, external oblique and rectus abdominis muscles during breakfalls.
    Results: We found significant difference in the knee joint motion during the judo backward breakfall between the experienced and novice judokas. However, there were no significant differences in the activation patterns of any muscles between the experienced and novice judokas. In addition, the timing of hand impact appeared to coincide with the timing of peak head linear acceleration.
    Conclusion: The knee joint movement and the hand impact skill may be important components of the judo backward breakfall motion.
    NBK
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    Post by NBK Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:47 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:A new scientific study is currently in print that deals with the biomechanics of the backward breakfall, and specifically compares experienced and novice jûdôka......

    In addition, the timing of hand impact appeared to coincide with the timing of peak head linear acceleration.

    Conclusion: The knee joint movement and the hand impact skill may be important components of the judo backward breakfall motion.
    .... thus setting themselves up for another scientific study to follow on.

    I guess the point of "the timing of hand impact appeared to coincide with the timing of peak head linear acceleration" is that if you the arm impacts before your head smacks the mat, your head bobs and the neck absorbs that acceleration in a controlled fashion. I hadn't thought of the importance of that; mostly I look at the point of impact to see if vulnerable points like the shoulder impact before the arm / hand impact (I don't agree with the term 'hand impact' - shouldn't the point be the extended arm impact? but I guess you could time off the hand, even though it most often gets there a bit after the upper and lower arm).

    My sensei always said, slap big! in a big fall. He knew that without a scientific study.

    I've been watching a lot of ukemi recently to try to understand what distinguishes good from bad mechanically, and how you can train. I know some traditional methods, like rolling off a crouched partner, but I know a couple of folks who simply have a tough time timing their falls / ukemi / hand impact. Some is simply psychological, I reckon - they don't want to take the fall and by that alone end up striking too late, so something pointy like shoulder or head strike too often.

    Ben Reinhardt
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:53 am

    Falling backwards is scary in everyday life...you can't see where you are going or what to land on...even if the student knows it's a smooth tatami with no obstructions, so I agree part is psychological.

    Another issue I've seen is one of body/kinaesthetic awareness, which results in the bad timing of the arms hitting the tatame at the best time. In kids, (and often adults) the neck isn't strong enough to absorb the forces, so the head hits the tatami no matter what.

    Use simpler and easier drills to build the body awareness and timing, same thing for the weak neck to build the awareness an control and neck strength.
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    Post by Brainjutsu Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:38 pm

    A new scientific study, eh? Hmm…let me think of it…why so many injuries in sport judo when being thrown to the rear despite the existence of ukemi waza?

    Let’s start from the beginning. In contrast to jujutsu, judo paid special attention to safety in training. Ukemi was one of the inventions included in the system. Throws were modified to allow for ukemi and even gokyo no waza was designed to gradually increase the impact on uke. And there is tatami, of course. However, all this works fine where throwing and falling are used to learn the principles of judo i.e. where being thrown doesn’t actually mean to be defeated. Consequently, any damage is caused entirely by bad training practices.

    The competition, on the other hand, is a completely different setup. There you’re both tori and uke at the same time. As tori, you care only about scoring and as uke you only think how to prevent the opponent from scoring. The result is disregard for safety which leads to…well…injuries. Consequently, certain techniques have been even banned due to that reason. Now, if you let a novice, i.e. a student inexperienced in ukemi, to engage in competition the risk of injury goes up proportionally.

    But wait, does it mean we can’t try developing a better breakfall technique?

    Actually no, because the concept of breaking the fall means not only accepting the fall as an inevitable fact but doing it before it’s too late. Now, here’s an example with an experienced judoka. To risk the arm or defeat - that is the question.



    Aside from the broken arm, pay attention to tori’s reaction immediately after the ‘successful’ throw. Jita kyoei, indeed. Too bad that aspect cannot be measured with "ping" machines.

    Or maybe it can?


    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:18 pm

    Brainjutsu wrote:A new scientific study, eh? Hmm…let me think of it…why so many injuries in sport judo when being thrown to the rear despite the existence of ukemi waza?

    Let’s start from the beginning. In contrast to jujutsu, judo paid special attention to safety in training. Ukemi was one of the inventions included in the system. Throws were modified to allow for ukemi and even gokyo no waza was designed to gradually increase the impact on uke. And there is tatami, of course. However, all this works fine where throwing and falling are used to learn the principles of judo i.e. where being thrown doesn’t actually mean to be defeated. Consequently, any damage is caused entirely by bad training practices.

    The competition, on the other hand, is a completely different setup. There you’re both tori and uke at the same time. As tori, you care only about scoring and as uke you only think how to prevent the opponent from scoring. The result is disregard for safety which leads to…well…injuries. Consequently, certain techniques have been even banned due to that reason. Now, if you let a novice, i.e. a student inexperienced in ukemi, to engage in competition the risk of injury goes up proportionally.

    But wait, does it mean we can’t try developing a better breakfall technique?

    Actually no, because the concept of breaking the fall means not only accepting the fall as an inevitable fact but doing it before it’s too late. Now, here’s an example with an experienced judoka. To risk the arm or defeat - that is the question.



    Aside from the broken arm, pay attention to tori’s reaction immediately after the ‘successful’ throw. Jita kyoei, indeed. Too bad that aspect cannot be measured with "ping" machines.

    Or maybe it can?



    Maybe it's the beer talking, or maybe it's the wine talking, but my man you have answer everything….every….thing….EVER
    makoto
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    Post by makoto Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:41 am

    In which journal will the fulltext be published?
    BillC
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    Post by BillC Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:50 pm

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:Falling backwards is scary in everyday life...you can't see where you are going or what to land on...even if the student knows it's a smooth tatami with no obstructions, so I agree part is psychological.

    ...

    Use simpler and easier drills to build the body awareness and timing, same thing for the weak neck to build the awareness an control and neck strength.

    "Thou wilt fall backward when thou hast more wit,
    Wilt thou not, Jule?"

    - by some other guys named Bill
    Cichorei Kano
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    Post by Cichorei Kano Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:48 am

    makoto wrote:In which journal will the fulltext be published?

    In volume 10 of Archives of Budo. I will provide the link to the full article as soon as it is available.
    Ben Reinhardt
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:07 am

    BillC wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:Falling backwards is scary in everyday life...you can't see where you are going or what to land on...even if the student knows it's a smooth tatami with no obstructions, so I agree part is psychological.

    ...

    Use simpler and easier drills to build the body awareness and timing, same thing for the weak neck to build the awareness an control and neck strength.

    "Thou wilt fall backward when thou hast more wit,
    Wilt thou not, Jule?"

    -  by some other guys named Bill

    Smart or funny you mean?
    BillC
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    Post by BillC Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:10 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:

    Smart or funny you mean?

    "What’s in a name? that which we call a rose
    By any other name would smell as sweet"
    Cichorei Kano
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    Post by Cichorei Kano Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:10 am

    The full text of the paper is now available from:

    http://www.archbudo.com/fulltxt.php?ICID=1116525

    The full reference is:

    Koshida S, Ishii T, Matsuda T et al. Biomechanics of the judo backward breakfall: comparison between experienced and novice judokas. Arch Budo 10: 187-194, 2014.
    makoto
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    Post by makoto Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:08 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:The full text of the paper is now available from:

    http://www.archbudo.com/fulltxt.php?ICID=1116525

    The full reference is:

    Koshida S, Ishii T, Matsuda T et al. Biomechanics of the judo backward breakfall: comparison between experienced and novice judokas. Arch Budo 10: 187-194, 2014.

    Great! Thank you!
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    Post by Brainjutsu Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:42 pm

    [/quote]

    Maybe it's the beer talking, or maybe it's the wine talking, but my man you have answer everything….every….thing….EVER[/quote]

    The issue of beer or wine might be solved by proper measuring. However, are you implying that I had to be under influence when writing those lines?

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