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medo
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    BJA announces sponsorship deal with UFC

    Jonesy
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    Post by Jonesy Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:54 am

    A very dark day for judo in the UK and all it should stand for. What would TPL have said?

    http://www.britishjudo.org.uk/news/british-judo-announces-new-sponsorship-deal-with-ultimate-fighting-championship
    Glorfindel
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    Post by Glorfindel Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:50 am

    Why is it dirty to get some $$ from the UFC?
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    justcurious


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    Post by justcurious Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:00 pm

    Glorfindel wrote:Why is it dirty to get some $$ from the UFC?
    I agree with Jonesy on this. You would never get one of the other judo governing/membership bodies in the UK supporting this. The BJA have moved so far away from the martial spirit that UFC probably fits well with them. I personally find this sad.
    Glorfindel
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    Post by Glorfindel Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:04 pm

    You or Jonsey, didnt give me any explaination.

    You dont like the UFC (biggest PROFESSIONAL mma organisation) or you dont like mma at all?

    Why mma is further from martial arts spirit than judo?
    Glorfindel
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    Post by Glorfindel Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:05 pm

    What's 'martial art spirit' ?
    finarashi
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    Post by finarashi Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:22 am

    I agree, money is not everything!
    Health and development of your body and mind are the key.
    Glorfindel
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    Post by Glorfindel Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:23 am

    Still waiting for any arguments...
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    medo


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    Post by medo Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:28 am

    Jonesy wrote:A very dark day for judo in the UK and all it should stand for.  What would TPL have said?

    http://www.britishjudo.org.uk/news/british-judo-announces-new-sponsorship-deal-with-ultimate-fighting-championship

    With the declining numbers in judo one presumes to pay CEO's and all the side kicks money has got to come from somewhere! Nothing to do with kodokan Judo just keeps non judo people in jobs.
    JudoStu
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    Post by JudoStu Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:35 am

    justcurious wrote:
    Glorfindel wrote:Why is it dirty to get some $$ from the UFC?
    I agree with Jonesy on this. You would never get one of the other judo governing/membership bodies in the UK supporting this. The BJA have moved so far away from the martial spirit that UFC probably fits well with them. I personally find this sad.

    I can't see a problem with it and, rather suprisingly, most of the people on the BJA facebook page seem to agree with me
    finarashi
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    Post by finarashi Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:45 am

    Why would Judo want to associate with organization whose main purposes are
     - making money
     - trying in the ring to hurt your opponent
     - trying in the ring to cause permanent physical disabilities to your opponent

    IMHO Judo is not about showbusiness.
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    medo


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    Post by medo Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:36 am

    JudoStu wrote:
    justcurious wrote:
    Glorfindel wrote:Why is it dirty to get some $$ from the UFC?
    I agree with Jonesy on this. You would never get one of the other judo governing/membership bodies in the UK supporting this. The BJA have moved so far away from the martial spirit that UFC probably fits well with them. I personally find this sad.

    I can't see a problem with it and, rather suprisingly, most of the people on the BJA facebook page seem to agree with me

    That does not suprise me, questions to ask in the next year would be are membership fees down, are grading and course fees down. Unlikely to happen will probably go up.

    I was thrilled when Rhonda Rousey did well in her first few fights but when she started deliberately dislocating arms my view changed that gives children, young people the idea its ok to detatch someone's elbow!

    Judostu as I said you will get nothing from this financial arrangement, will it attract any new members I doubt it will it improve your lot as a pupil or teacher doubt it. As I said above keeps those in the main office in a job and I guarantee the CEO will get a big bonus on top of a very high salary.
    Neil G
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    Post by Neil G Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:59 am

    medo wrote:
    I was thrilled when Rhonda Rousey did well in her first few fights but when she started deliberately dislocating arms my view changed that gives children, young people the idea its ok to detatch someone's elbow!
    She's deliberately dislocated elbows when the opponent refused to tap and the referee refused to stop it. I don't believe she has ever tried to continue the technique once the win is clear. The one time she tried to be nice about it the other girl retracted a verbal submission.

    There's lots of other reasons to dislike Ronda from a budo perspective but her finishing subs isn't one of them IMO. No different than judo shiai, if the other guy is too dumb/stubborn to tap you have to continue the waza.
    Ben Reinhardt
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:50 am

    Neil G wrote:
    medo wrote:
    I was thrilled when Rhonda Rousey did well in her first few fights but when she started deliberately dislocating arms my view changed that gives children, young people the idea its ok to detatch someone's elbow!
    She's deliberately dislocated elbows when the opponent refused to tap and the referee refused to stop it.  I don't believe she has ever tried to continue the technique once the win is clear.  The one time she tried to be nice about it the other girl retracted a verbal submission.

    There's lots of other reasons to dislike Ronda from a budo perspective but her finishing subs isn't one of them IMO.  No different than judo shiai, if the other guy is too dumb/stubborn to tap you have to continue the waza.

    Agreed.

    I've dislocated elbows in shiai when my opponent refused to give up, and strangled people unconscious for the same reason (although I never give them a chance to submit on shime waza).

    And I'm not bragging about it,either, it's a fact of judo shiai that either of those things can happen, within the rules.
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    medo


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    Post by medo Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:32 am

    Neil G wrote:
    medo wrote:
    I was thrilled when Rhonda Rousey did well in her first few fights but when she started deliberately dislocating arms my view changed that gives children, young people the idea its ok to detatch someone's elbow!
    She's deliberately dislocated elbows when the opponent refused to tap and the referee refused to stop it.  I don't believe she has ever tried to continue the technique once the win is clear.  The one time she tried to be nice about it the other girl retracted a verbal submission.

    There's lots of other reasons to dislike Ronda from a budo perspective but her finishing subs isn't one of them IMO.  No different than judo shiai, if the other guy is too dumb/stubborn to tap you have to continue the waza.

    Personaly even in shia I have never intentionally fought to maim a fellow contestant and thats where MMA and judo don't mix very well. Accidents do happen its not pleasant watching your opponent screeming in agony then being stretchered off its happened a couple of times in my career not nice to think I hurt someone else. To dismiss the act as the opponent being to dumb/stubborn to submitt when there's no longer any elbow to lock to me don't make sense.
    The reason judo does not lock any other joint but the elbow is because you feel the pain before serious injury occurs most will tap out those who don't normaly have to retire or fight one handed there is no point in continuing untill dislocation occurs any person with that mindset belongs in MMA.
    Neil G
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    Post by Neil G Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:18 am

    I'm not sure which kinder, gentler shiai you've been attending but the ones I go to locally typically have their fair share of injuries. As a ref I try to prevent them but I have a couple of times had to deal with angry competitors/coaches when I called ippon on a submission with no tap that I thought was dangerously close to injury. So now I just let it go, if they get hurt they get hurt.
    JudoStu
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    Post by JudoStu Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:02 am

    finarashi wrote:Why would Judo want to associate with organization whose main purposes are
     - making money
     - trying in the ring to hurt your opponent
     - trying in the ring to cause permanent physical disabilities to your opponent

    IMHO Judo is not about showbusiness.

    I don't think many MMA fighters deliberately try to cause permanent physical disabilities to their opponent. They fight within a ruleset the same as Judo shiai takes place within a ruleset. You can get hurt doing both
    Jonesy
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    Post by Jonesy Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:36 am

    I did a quick search on Google images for "Judo Competition" (results shown top) and "UFC" (bottom).

    BJA announces sponsorship deal with UFC Photo%2007-11-2014%2019%2018%2036

    I really cannot see why the judo brand believes in any benefit, beyond short term money, of associating with UFC. It is like a Michelin starred restauraurant being sponsored by Burger King.
    Ben Reinhardt
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:04 am

    medo wrote:
    Neil G wrote:
    medo wrote:
    I was thrilled when Rhonda Rousey did well in her first few fights but when she started deliberately dislocating arms my view changed that gives children, young people the idea its ok to detatch someone's elbow!
    She's deliberately dislocated elbows when the opponent refused to tap and the referee refused to stop it.  I don't believe she has ever tried to continue the technique once the win is clear.  The one time she tried to be nice about it the other girl retracted a verbal submission.

    There's lots of other reasons to dislike Ronda from a budo perspective but her finishing subs isn't one of them IMO.  No different than judo shiai, if the other guy is too dumb/stubborn to tap you have to continue the waza.

    Personaly even in shia I have never intentionally fought to maim a fellow contestant and thats where MMA and judo don't mix very well.  Accidents do happen its not pleasant watching your opponent screeming in agony then being stretchered off its happened a couple of times in my career not nice to think I hurt someone else.  To dismiss the act as the opponent being to dumb/stubborn to submitt when there's no longer any elbow to lock to me don't make sense.  
    The reason judo does not lock any other joint but the elbow is because you feel the pain before serious injury occurs most will tap out those who don't normaly have to retire or fight one handed there is no point in continuing untill dislocation occurs any person with that mindset belongs in MMA.

    Well,I don't intend to maim anyone either in shiai, but under the rules, one can "maim" the elbow if the opponent doesn't submit. The time available to submit can be pretty small at higher level competition, but it's there. I can also strangle someone unconscious, which in polite society carries a pretty big stigma in western culture at least. That's not maiming.

    I'm not sure what you mean by no elbow left to lock...if you mean the joint is disclocated/broken, that's ippon whether the guy submits or not, same as if the guy passes out from a strangle.

    I've seen plenty of guys and gals not submit to elbow dislocations, despite the pain...in Judo....

    If someone submits, the pressure is off, if not, well, the elbow can be damaged. That's been the story in Judo for longer than you or I have been around. Nothing to do with MMA.
    Glorfindel
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    Post by Glorfindel Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:11 am

    Jonesy, put mma instead of ufc and you will have a very different result in your search. No more bloody 'spectacular' pictures....
    Jonesy
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    Post by Jonesy Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:52 am

    Glorfindel wrote:Jonesy,  put mma instead of ufc and you will have a very different result in your search.  No more bloody 'spectacular' pictures....
    Indeed, but it precisely UFC that the BJA have chosen to lay down with.

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