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    "What is essence of Judo? What is the very heart of judo?

    noboru
    noboru


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    Post by noboru Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:29 pm

    Mifune`s explanation to question: ""What is essence of Judo? What is the very heart of judo?"
    His interesting explanation with ball or/and sphere example from 34:19-35:30.

    Kyuzo Mifune | 三船 久蔵 - The Essence of Judo | Full Movie Eng. Subtitles
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnRl5pEdYHs
    NBK
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    Post by NBK Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:25 am

    I'm not sure I've seen that entire film before, thanks for posting.
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    Anatol


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    Post by Anatol Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:49 am

    Hi Noboru

    Do you remember the "Song of Judo", a poem by Mifune written in 1953?


    柔道の歌
    三船久蔵

    不断の稽古に邪念なく 心は虚しく 身も軽しい
    中心帰一のことわりを 忘れず励まん ひとすぢに
    これぞまことの わが柔道 わが柔道

    百練千磨の功を積み 七転八起の妙を得ん
    解脱の奥義を悟りなば 変応自在の球となる
    これぞまことの わが柔道 わが柔道

    柔の道には国境なく 和らぐ心に敵はなし
    世界の友らと手を組みて 樹てばや平和の理想郷
    これぞまことの わが柔道 わが柔道



    A Song of Judo
    by Kyuzo Mifune

    In time of practice, without distraction,
    light in heart and light in limb.
    Let us endeavor with full attention,
    to concentrate our mind within.
    This is the genuine way of Judo.
    This is the genuine way of Judo.

    Trained through practice to perfection,
    skilled in the art of rise and fall.
    Let us enter the way of salvation,
    freely moving like a ball.
    This is the genuine way of Judo.
    This is the genuine way of Judo.

    The way of Judo knows no bound,
    the mild of heart no enmity.
    Let us, all nations hand in hand,
    build the ideal of amity.
    This is the genuine way of Judo.
    This is the genuine way of Judo.


    (transl. by judoinfo.com)

    .
    noboru
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    Post by noboru Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:02 am

    Thank you a lot.
    Ben Reinhardt
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:01 am

    The notion of ball/sphere is used extensively in Aikido.


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    NBK
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    Post by NBK Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:04 am

    Although it's going to bug a couple of folks here that I told way too often (obviously because they're not listening....), Kano shihan wrote that Kime no Kata contained the core elements of júdó.

    I see the ball analogy used a lot in postwar aikidó but any idea when it crept in? It is not obvious in earlier writings.
    BillC
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    Post by BillC Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:33 am

    NBK wrote: Kano shihan wrote that Kime no Kata contained the core elements of júdó.

    Really ... when did you say that? Rolling Eyes


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    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

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    Anatol


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    Post by Anatol Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:58 pm

    Hi NBK!


    I think, Kano and Mifune had different approaches to Judo:

    Kano: systematical, methodical, educational, logical, organized, formal

    Mifune: practical, floating, experimental, minimalistic, natural, simple, free


    In a metaphor:

    Kanos Judo is like a cube, Mifunes Judo like a ball/sphere.

    Kanos Judo is like a framework, Mifunes Judo like waves and circles.



    Hi Noboru!

    I think, the philosophical core of "ball/sphere" is in "mushin/wu xin" 無心 and in "wuji" 無極

    If your mind is not fixed with "this and that" or "if this than that" you can freely moving like a ball, "light in heart and light in limb".

    If you practice a lot ;-)


    .


    Last edited by Anatol on Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Anatol Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:08 am

    I think,

    "sei ryoku zenyo" is the essence of Judo.

    Natural, simple, round, beautiful. Nature is in waves, circles, changes - there are not many straight lines or square angles. To go with nature (or physics if you want) is the most efficient way to use energy (ryoku zenyo) and to do this with an open and clear and calm mind (sei zenyo) is a great pleasure/delight. To do things in a most efficient way (with the minimum effort, which is needed) and to know, which things to do and which to refrain is a joy in everday life.

    .
    Ben Reinhardt
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:14 am

    NBK wrote:Although it's going to bug a couple of folks here that I told way too often (obviously because they're not listening....), Kano shihan wrote that Kime no Kata contained the core elements of júdó.

    I see the ball analogy used a lot in postwar aikidó but any idea when it crept in?  It is not obvious in earlier writings.

    This is post-WW2, of course.

    "What is essence of Judo? What is the very heart of judo? 511W7aF6fKL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_

    I read the above, found it in my "collection" in the garage while looking for an old judo book.

    Spheres seemed important...



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    noboru
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    Post by noboru Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:35 am

    What is the essence of Judo?
    What is the very heart of Judo?

    Let`s listen as 10th Dan Mifune answers these questions for us.

    The foundations of Judo are expressed through this ball or sphere. A sphere has never known what it is like to fall over( of balance ). No matter where it bounces, its center ( of balance ) is never lost. In short the sphere is someting that will never fall over. By maintaining its center of balance it is able to produce infinite variations because there is no wasted movement from the sphere.

    10th Dan Mifune discovered that his body is like the sphere.
    While leading training he shows that when pushed, turn and when pulled go with it on an angle. This is the same idea as the non-wasting movement of the sphere. There is an old expression that the secrets of Budo are,"When pulled, push. When pushed, pull". Using the principle of the sphere to never lose his center of balance.

    10th Dan Mifune turns when pushed and when puled he moves with it on an angle. Through dedicated training a person`s body can become just as capable of adapting ( its balance ) as the constantly transforming sphere.
    noboru
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    Post by noboru Tue May 11, 2021 8:14 pm

    I found similar ball ideas in interview with Minoru Mochizuki from 1982. He as child learn little bit jujutsu Gyokushin ryu. In intreview he spokes about "Gyokushin spherical spirit” na explanation from his teacher Sanjuro Oshima.
    https://aikidojournal.com/2002/11/18/interview-with-minoru-mochizuki-1/

    Mochizuki wrote:I entered Tokusanbo Sensei’s dojo in 1924. At that time, a teacher of an old-style jujutsu called Gyokushin-ryu lived very near to my sister. His name was Sanjuro Oshima. This teacher was really saddened to see the classical styles of jujutsu disappearing one by one and he was determined to see to it that his own art was preserved. So much so that he requested that I learn it from him. I would go to his house and would be treated to a fine meal. I didn’t have to pay any fees to study and they actually gave me dinner. That was how I cam to study jujutsu.

    Were you awarded some kind of ranking in this art?

    After about six months I received a license called the Shoden Kirishi Mokuroku which would be roughly equal to a first degree black belt in judo. That was the end of my relationship with that teacher, but to this day I still remember his words. “The name of our tradition is the Gyokushin Ryu. The name is written with characters meaning ‘spherical spirit.’ A ball will roll freely. No matter which side it is pushed from it will roll away. Just this sort of spirit is the true spirit that Gyokushin Ryu seeks to instill in its members. If you have done this, nothing in this world can upset you.” At that time I was still a child and so I didn’t understand what he meant very well. I simply imagined a heart or spirit rolling here and there. It wasn’t until I had passed 50 years of age that I can to understand what “Gyokushin spherical spirit” really meant. If you don’t spend 50 years at it, you won’t be able to get it. I had forgotten about it for many years.

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