I remember reading about it in the judo forum years ago, but not sure if the details of the system was discussed or not.
does anyone have any information on it?
contrarian wrote:I'm interested in finding out what technique was what number according to that particular teaching method used by some people in France.
I remember reading about it in the judo forum years ago, but not sure if the details of the system was discussed or not.
does anyone have any information on it?
I didn't realized you were THAT old, Jacob !Jacob3 wrote:The Kawaishi method is often used in Holland aswell. I was raised with it.
Ben Reinhardt wrote:I have some old handouts I was given. I already knew all the throws when I started doing Judo with the teacher who used the Kawaishi system (I was already a black belt). He also knew all the Japanese too.
Does anyone have any info on the katame waza sequences ? My handouts don't have that in them. They were basically informal kata.
Jacob3 wrote:Ben Reinhardt wrote:I have some old handouts I was given. I already knew all the throws when I started doing Judo with the teacher who used the Kawaishi system (I was already a black belt). He also knew all the Japanese too.
Does anyone have any info on the katame waza sequences ? My handouts don't have that in them. They were basically informal kata.
http://www.lukigoshi.nl/Kawaishi.htm
These are all the techniques. However they are also from certain positions. I could not find any versions with pictures online.
I spoke with my partner about this yesterday, and he says he has an old book with all techniques in them. He will bring it along this weekend. Hopefully I can make some copies from it.
Jacob3 wrote:Ben Reinhardt wrote:I have some old handouts I was given. I already knew all the throws when I started doing Judo with the teacher who used the Kawaishi system (I was already a black belt). He also knew all the Japanese too.
Does anyone have any info on the katame waza sequences ? My handouts don't have that in them. They were basically informal kata.
http://www.lukigoshi.nl/Kawaishi.htm
These are all the techniques. However they are also from certain positions. I could not find any versions with pictures online.
I spoke with my partner about this yesterday, and he says he has an old book with all techniques in them. He will bring it along this weekend. Hopefully I can make some copies from it.
contrarian wrote:Jacob3 wrote:Ben Reinhardt wrote:I have some old handouts I was given. I already knew all the throws when I started doing Judo with the teacher who used the Kawaishi system (I was already a black belt). He also knew all the Japanese too.
Does anyone have any info on the katame waza sequences ? My handouts don't have that in them. They were basically informal kata.
http://www.lukigoshi.nl/Kawaishi.htm
These are all the techniques. However they are also from certain positions. I could not find any versions with pictures online.
I spoke with my partner about this yesterday, and he says he has an old book with all techniques in them. He will bring it along this weekend. Hopefully I can make some copies from it.
you, sir, are awesome.
Jacob3 wrote:
well ty, but so far I have only posted links to other people's efforts. So the credit is really theirs
contrarian wrote:Jacob3 wrote:
well ty, but so far I have only posted links to other people's efforts. So the credit is really theirs
you are here and they are not, so you are my personal saviour. thank you.
so, in dutch, 'worp' is throw? can it be used as a verb?
at next practice, can i say 'i worp'd your butt'?
that would sound awesome.
forgeron judo wrote:You have to remember that when Kawaishi arrived in France he joined the Elite club of physicians and university thinker. In those day, the french clutural aspects were very predominant. He wanted to mesh with the current customs and methods, others previous to him had tried to implement some form of ju jutsu and judo but had failed to make a decisive enry into the french culture.. He therefore adapted his method to the Européens and french in particular.
He wanted to istall his original teaching within the french method and diffused his teaching from his Paris base of dojo. Assisted by one of his student Jean Gailhat, he produced several books as the technical director of the Fench judo federation and associated disciplines, until the start of the World war. he had produced:
Ma methode of judo where numbers and names are listd and illustrated,
Ma methode de self-defense with again numbers and illustrations,
Les katas complets de judo
Les enchainements et les contreprises with photo, numbers and names (with Henri Courtine as uke)
Most of those books where published by Publi-judo of the Le Plessis-Robinson (Seine) publication house in Paris.)
Hope you can still find some old copies still availabale. Mine are kept inn my librairy like someone else keep their diamondsin their vault...
Always a good reference point.
forgeron judo wrote:You have to remember that when Kawaishi arrived in France he joined the Elite club of physicians and university thinker. In those day, the french clutural aspects were very predominant. He wanted to mesh with the current customs and methods, others previous to him had tried to implement some form of ju jutsu and judo but had failed to make a decisive enry into the french culture.. He therefore adapted his method to the Européens and french in particular.
He wanted to istall his original teaching within the french method and diffused his teaching from his Paris base of dojo. Assisted by one of his student Jean Gailhat, he produced several books as the technical director of the Fench judo federation and associated disciplines, until the start of the World war. he had produced:
Ma methode of judo where numbers and names are listd and illustrated,
Ma methode de self-defense with again numbers and illustrations,
Les katas complets de judo
Les enchainements et les contreprises with photo, numbers and names (with Henri Courtine as uke)
Most of those books where published by Publi-judo of the Le Plessis-Robinson (Seine) publication house in Paris.)
Hope you can still find some old copies still availabale. Mine are kept inn my librairy like someone else keep their diamondsin their vault...
Always a good reference point.
Ben Reinhardt wrote:Jacob3 wrote:Ben Reinhardt wrote:I have some old handouts I was given. I already knew all the throws when I started doing Judo with the teacher who used the Kawaishi system (I was already a black belt). He also knew all the Japanese too.
Does anyone have any info on the katame waza sequences ? My handouts don't have that in them. They were basically informal kata.
http://www.lukigoshi.nl/Kawaishi.htm
These are all the techniques. However they are also from certain positions. I could not find any versions with pictures online.
I spoke with my partner about this yesterday, and he says he has an old book with all techniques in them. He will bring it along this weekend. Hopefully I can make some copies from it.
Right, and the positions are what I can't remember all of, or even most of.
The techniques were arranged in sequences based on action-reaction, and there were different series, like Series 1, 2, 3, etc
For example, pin uke with Hon Kesa Gatame. Uke attempts to escape by pulling out his arm, do Kesa Garami.
There were 2-3 (I think) series of standing armbars and chokes as well, chokes/armbars from "guard", etc.
The whole judo by numbers thing isn't really useful, or any more useful than learning Japanese and/or English (or whatever language) names.
The action-reaction sequences and positions were useful, though.
Hi,Jacob3 wrote:However, at my club we do practice many newaza techniques in certain series. The one you mention is amongst them.
We have done so as long as I can remember. Possibly they are based on Kawaishi's system, but I cannot be sure of that. The only one who could tell me that is my old Judo teacher. He is 92 though, suffers from dementia and is unable to communicate anymore.
Jacob3 wrote:Ben Reinhardt wrote:Jacob3 wrote:Ben Reinhardt wrote:I have some old handouts I was given. I already knew all the throws when I started doing Judo with the teacher who used the Kawaishi system (I was already a black belt). He also knew all the Japanese too.
Does anyone have any info on the katame waza sequences ? My handouts don't have that in them. They were basically informal kata.
http://www.lukigoshi.nl/Kawaishi.htm
These are all the techniques. However they are also from certain positions. I could not find any versions with pictures online.
I spoke with my partner about this yesterday, and he says he has an old book with all techniques in them. He will bring it along this weekend. Hopefully I can make some copies from it.
Right, and the positions are what I can't remember all of, or even most of.
The techniques were arranged in sequences based on action-reaction, and there were different series, like Series 1, 2, 3, etc
For example, pin uke with Hon Kesa Gatame. Uke attempts to escape by pulling out his arm, do Kesa Garami.
There were 2-3 (I think) series of standing armbars and chokes as well, chokes/armbars from "guard", etc.
The whole judo by numbers thing isn't really useful, or any more useful than learning Japanese and/or English (or whatever language) names.
The action-reaction sequences and positions were useful, though.
I got the mentioned book last night. There are some pictures in there, but none about any sequences.
Hopefully Forgeron can produce those.
If they are not, I wonder if these series were ever made official. I have never really heard of them.
However, at my club we do practice many newaza techniques in certain series. The one you mention is amongst them.
We have done so as long as I can remember. Possibly they are based on Kawaishi's system, but I cannot be sure of that. The only one who could tell me that is my old Judo teacher. He is 92 though, suffers from dementia and is unable to communicate anymore.
But since you might recognise them, you might want to take a look at this clip. Starting from 4 min, there are several sequences of techniques. This clip is not completely based on these series since it is just meant for our students to remember what they have learned in class. Therefore we just grabbed the first one that was early for class, for several weeks, and shook some techniques out of our sleeves. I do see several (parts) of the series in there, so perhaps you recognise something.
Jihef wrote:Hi,Jacob3 wrote:However, at my club we do practice many newaza techniques in certain series. The one you mention is amongst them.
We have done so as long as I can remember. Possibly they are based on Kawaishi's system, but I cannot be sure of that. The only one who could tell me that is my old Judo teacher. He is 92 though, suffers from dementia and is unable to communicate anymore.
I have no time to check the videos right now, but in France there is this series :
11 immobisations avec dégagements et enchaînements.
That is taught by Shozo AWAZU sensei, longtime associate of Kawaishi sensei, could it be what you are looking for ?
Cheers,
J-F.
Jacob3 wrote:Ben Reinhardt wrote:Jacob3 wrote:Ben Reinhardt wrote:I have some old handouts I was given. I already knew all the throws when I started doing Judo with the teacher who used the Kawaishi system (I was already a black belt). He also knew all the Japanese too.
Does anyone have any info on the katame waza sequences ? My handouts don't have that in them. They were basically informal kata.
http://www.lukigoshi.nl/Kawaishi.htm
These are all the techniques. However they are also from certain positions. I could not find any versions with pictures online.
I spoke with my partner about this yesterday, and he says he has an old book with all techniques in them. He will bring it along this weekend. Hopefully I can make some copies from it.
Right, and the positions are what I can't remember all of, or even most of.
The techniques were arranged in sequences based on action-reaction, and there were different series, like Series 1, 2, 3, etc
For example, pin uke with Hon Kesa Gatame. Uke attempts to escape by pulling out his arm, do Kesa Garami.
There were 2-3 (I think) series of standing armbars and chokes as well, chokes/armbars from "guard", etc.
The whole judo by numbers thing isn't really useful, or any more useful than learning Japanese and/or English (or whatever language) names.
The action-reaction sequences and positions were useful, though.
I got the mentioned book last night. There are some pictures in there, but none about any sequences.
Hopefully Forgeron can produce those.
If they are not, I wonder if these series were ever made official. I have never really heard of them.
However, at my club we do practice many newaza techniques in certain series. The one you mention is amongst them.
We have done so as long as I can remember. Possibly they are based on Kawaishi's system, but I cannot be sure of that. The only one who could tell me that is my old Judo teacher. He is 92 though, suffers from dementia and is unable to communicate anymore.
But since you might recognise them, you might want to take a look at this clip. Starting from 4 min, there are several sequences of techniques. This clip is not completely based on these series since it is just meant for our students to remember what they have learned in class. Therefore we just grabbed the first one that was early for class, for several weeks, and shook some techniques out of our sleeves. I do see several (parts) of the series in there, so perhaps you recognise something.
forgeron judo wrote:As mentionned, Kawaishi came from Wasada and trained in Kyoto at the Budokai before spending some time at the Kodokan, He was also influence by sensei Koizumi of London who also came from the Kyoto academy. His présentations of techniques by numbers, illustrations and japaneese names were cconstant. He frequently made cross references when possible and during exam periods, he requested thqt the students understood the meaning of the classification system he used. Of course, you will find several techniques outside the thinking of the Kodokan and that was ok at the time since Kawaishi mixed his jujitsu background to complete his teaching. As canadian students, we the students had Sensei Kawaishi as technical director and we had to perform both ju jitsu and judo during the exam periods.
Upon his return from the exile during the last war, things had changed in France, the new governing body called the College had reorganized and endorsed the Abe approach of the Kodokan as a more dynamic and more suitable. Alain Valin was tasked to review the pedagogical approach and the summary of changes were published in an in-house cahier technique giving the rationale and the new syllabus which is still in vogue but the publication has been redone into volume 1 to 5 by George Baudot, Guy Pelletier and Claude Urvoy with the title judo juperieur, published by the maison du judoka Asniere France. (it shows all the progression.
Valain also produced an excellent exposé called Maitrise et Puissance par le JUDO au Sol,edition Oliven Paris.
Hope you find what you are looking for, if more needed, look up my earlier books and articles at the www.scribd.com and my identity is Forgeron or Ronald Desormeaux and most of my work that can be freely download.
As for the chart, I will try to photograph one of my copy and post it later on.
forgeron judo wrote:As mentionned, Kawaishi came from Wasada and trained in Kyoto at the Budokai before spending some time at the Kodokan, He was also influence by sensei Koizumi of London who also came from the Kyoto academy. His présentations of techniques by numbers, illustrations and japaneese names were cconstant. He frequently made cross references when possible and during exam periods, he requested thqt the students understood the meaning of the classification system he used. Of course, you will find several techniques outside the thinking of the Kodokan and that was ok at the time since Kawaishi mixed his jujitsu background to complete his teaching. As canadian students, we the students had Sensei Kawaishi as technical director and we had to perform both ju jitsu and judo during the exam periods.
Upon his return from the exile during the last war, things had changed in France, the new governing body called the College had reorganized and endorsed the Abe approach of the Kodokan as a more dynamic and more suitable. Alain Valin was tasked to review the pedagogical approach and the summary of changes were published in an in-house cahier technique giving the rationale and the new syllabus which is still in vogue but the publication has been redone into volume 1 to 5 by George Baudot, Guy Pelletier and Claude Urvoy with the title judo juperieur, published by the maison du judoka Asniere France. (it shows all the progression.
Valain also produced an excellent exposé called Maitrise et Puissance par le JUDO au Sol,edition Oliven Paris.
Hope you find what you are looking for, if more needed, look up my earlier books and articles at the www.scribd.com and my identity is Forgeron or Ronald Desormeaux and most of my work that can be freely download.
As for the chart, I will try to photograph one of my copy and post it later on.
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