Groundwork and the Average Fan

For you MMA fans out there who, by merit of being on this forum, train judo, how do you find the average, non-training fan? MMA is a sport of multiple disciplines and I find that most people really don't understand any of them enough to understand it. In spite of the great strides submissions have made in MMA, the number one complaint I hear from bar-mates is that watching ground work is boring. It can be very exciting in some cases, but when it's striker on top vs. grappler in guard often it does end up being the top guy shooting strikes trying to accumulate points, not really trying to pass. That kind of action on the ground is bad for the sport in that I'm sure more people would enjoy watching this video as opposed to watching Jon Jones rub his freakishly long elbows in some poor guys face for a round.



What are your views on the effect of ground work on average viewer interest? Do you think that if a K-1 like promotion came to America it would be well-received?

My opinion is martial arts should never be dumbed down to make them appreciable to everyone who cant be bothered to learn anything about them. Take chess - if you dont know the rules it doesnt make sense - rugby, soccer, the French language - just about every area of human activity has a plethora of subtleties and nuances that the average guy in the bar would not understand without at least some background information. Martial arts are no different - people just think they should be because they think they understand fighting . I dont understand American football at all but I dont demand they change the game to make it as simple as possible for me to understand instantly.

Techniques in MMA should be there simply because they work - anything else and it will end up like WWF theatre production or something.

Dew wrote:My opinion is martial arts should never be dumbed down to make them appreciable to everyone who cant be bothered to learn anything about them. Take chess - if you dont know the rules it doesnt make sense - rugby, soccer, the French language - just about every area of human activity has a plethora of subtleties and nuances that the average guy in the bar would not understand without at least some background information. Martial arts are no different - people just think they should be because they think they understand fighting . I dont understand American football at all but I dont demand they change the game to make it as simple as possible for me to understand instantly.

Techniques in MMA should be there simply because they work - anything else and it will end up like WWF theatre production or something.

I agree completely. If I am watching a fight with non-martial artists I try to explain what each competitor is trying to do from thier position (if the person is complaining that it is boring).

Unrelated- I've been trying the BBCode for Video Embedding and it hasn't been working... I tried following the BBCode guide and putting in the embed code between the tags and that also doesn't work.

Related- I'm not suggesting a change in anything, I was just curious how you guys handled the people that get bored watching groundwork!

^^^ generally, I stand up, throw my arms out wide and shout "Are you not entertained? ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!?"

Or you know, you could stop making people watch things they don't want to. Either / or :>

why is this limited to MMA?

my wife (still getting used to that word), who has far more exposure to judo than your average American female, commented that although the throws are really cool, and the standing portions of matches are really exciting (the knowledge that a throw can happen at any second), when it goes to the ground it "just looks like 2 guys humping each other until the ref stands them up."

why would we ever expect the uninitiated to know what is going on, and that it's not as boring, or easy ("if I was in there, I'd just stand back up and punch him in the face like a man!") as it looks.

such is life.

Ive taken more of a fancy to wrestling and I really appreciate the control and positional part of the MMA fights. I really loved the domination GSP put on in his last fight for instance. The guard position used to be thought of as the best position on the ground, but wrestlers have totally turned that around. Nowadays Ken Shamrock would have won his second fight against Royce for instance. Also Bas Rutten wouldnt have won against Randleman. Funny how these things change over the years.

I think the issue is "entertainment", people are paying to be entertained which invariably means constant action. Fast and decisive groundwork is usually well received I've observed.

All people who train can appreciate the slow parts of any match as the athletes gather their wind or try to tie their opponent down to get back in the game. This is because we know how hard it is to actually do these things. Average punters though think there should be a magical supply if energy that never runs out.

Herein lies the problem with pretty much every area of human endevour that requires high levels of skill - it's incomprehensible to those who don't have at least some skill/understanding.

It applies to engineering, mathematics, art, science, sport, music ... whatever.

It is a shame - and I think the constant pursuit of 'entertainment' value in things can seriously damage them - i.e. changing rules to make things 'better'. It tends to make them worse, on several levels. The rules change often doesn't have the intended effect, and it degrades the applicability of the original intent of the art.

Creamy creamy baileys wrote:^^^ generally, I stand up, throw my arms out wide and shout "Are you not entertained? ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!?"

Or you know, you could stop making people watch things they don't want to. Either / or :>

BWAAAHAAAAAHAAAAA

Although an avid newaza practitioner, I have been known to fast forward through ground work while watching MMA to the portions where folks attempt/succeed in a reversal, submission or escape.

Taiobroshi wrote:It can be very exciting in some cases, but when it's striker on top vs. grappler in guard often it does end up being the top guy shooting strikes trying to accumulate points, not really trying to pass. That kind of action on the ground is bad for the sport in that I'm sure more people would enjoy watching this video as opposed to watching Jon Jones rub his freakishly long elbows in some poor guys face for a round.

I don't understand; G'n'P from inside guard is a perfectly viable way to finish a fight. Can this tactic be used for point fighting? Sure, but often it is also used to end fights dramatically. It ironic that you would pic Jon Jones to make your point as he has some of the most dangerous in guard G'n'P in MMA.