What is the origin of the word "degree" when referring to a person's dan rank?
+4
justcurious
Udon
Jonesy
Steve Leadbeater
8 posters
Dan or Degree
Steve Leadbeater- Posts : 205
Join date : 2013-02-26
Age : 68
Location : Sydney Australia
- Post n°2
Re: Dan or Degree
degree = level
Jonesy- Posts : 1070
Join date : 2013-01-02
- Post n°3
Re: Dan or Degree
Dan means step or stage. Does not mean degree or rank - those are just terms inserted by Western judo federations.
Udon- Posts : 162
Join date : 2012-12-31
Location : Minnesota
- Post n°4
Re: Dan or Degree
Step or stage is certainly more meaningful.
justcurious- Posts : 37
Join date : 2013-02-03
Age : 67
Location : Manchester, UK
- Post n°5
Re: Dan or Degree
Why do some nations refer to Dan while others describe the stages as Degree?
davidn- Posts : 53
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 52
Location : northern CA
- Post n°6
Re: Dan or Degree
and some refer to it as grade.
NBK- Posts : 1298
Join date : 2013-01-10
Location : Tokyo, Japan
- Post n°7
Re: Dan or Degree
I'd blame the Masons.
Y-Chromosome- Posts : 200
Join date : 2015-06-02
Age : 58
Location : The Great White North
- Post n°10
Re: Dan or Degree
justcurious wrote:What is the origin of the word "degree" when referring to a person's dan rank?
I don't think you'll find a definitive answer to that. At best you could do a literature search and try to find the earliest mentions in English writing which would likely be no earlier than the late 1880s to sometime in the 1920s or 30s.
It is altogether possible it was coined by Kano himself who was quite fluent in English.
I have read that it was Kano who popularized the translation "Gentle way" for "Ju do". Many now acknowledge that "gentle" is not the best general-purpose translation of "ju". A lot of Judo terms have been "culturally adjusted" when translated. Some better than others.
I try not to get too wrapped up over these things. I don't think there's any confusion in the English speaking world that dan ranks or "degrees of black belt" in any way equate to academic degrees, particularly university degrees.
"Degree" can mean a lot of things in English, which is notoriously packed with both synonyms and homonyms.
The "degree of black belt" is a very specific usage which derives from the practice of martial arts. First of Japanese/Okinawan origin and later broadening to Korean, European and Pan-American systems which adapted a judo-esque kyu-dan ranking system. Everybody knows it's its own thing and that you go to a dojo to get one and not a university.
By the same token I can't get excited over whether one says "rank" vs "grade" or even "choke" vs "strangle". Po-TAY-to Po-TAH-to, Tom-MAY-to, To-MAH-to....
I'm frankly usually just frustrated by semantic arguments and try to side-step them when I can.
For instance I will frequently refer to Judo as a "discipline" so as to side step the argument over whether it is a "martial art", "martial way" or even not "martial" at all.
finarashi- Posts : 507
Join date : 2013-01-11
Location : Finland
- Post n°11
Re: Dan or Degree
In one of the earliest Judo books translated into english "Judo : Japanese physical culture : being a further exposition of jujitsu and similar arts" by Arima, Sumitomo, published in Tokyo, Japan, Mitsumura, 1908, 116p the author in frontispiece is described as Having "Yodan(Fourth grade)".
In another famous book "Judo" by Yokoyama, Sakujirō (1864 - 1914) and Oshima, Eisuke ; transl. Horiguchi, Yamakichi, Tokyo, Japan, Nishōdō, 1915, 297p. the author is not give a dan grade, but first picture insert shows "promotion of members from one grade to another".
In the french edition "Judo : manuel de jiu-jitsu de l'ecole Kano a Tokio" by Yokoyama, Sakujirō (1864 - 1914) and Oshima, Eisuke, Paris, France, Berger-Levrault, 1911, 209p. the author in frontispiece is referred "(7e degrè).
In another famous book "Judo" by Yokoyama, Sakujirō (1864 - 1914) and Oshima, Eisuke ; transl. Horiguchi, Yamakichi, Tokyo, Japan, Nishōdō, 1915, 297p. the author is not give a dan grade, but first picture insert shows "promotion of members from one grade to another".
In the french edition "Judo : manuel de jiu-jitsu de l'ecole Kano a Tokio" by Yokoyama, Sakujirō (1864 - 1914) and Oshima, Eisuke, Paris, France, Berger-Levrault, 1911, 209p. the author in frontispiece is referred "(7e degrè).
NBK- Posts : 1298
Join date : 2013-01-10
Location : Tokyo, Japan
- Post n°12
Re: Dan or Degree
Yappari... the French screwed it up.finarashi wrote:In one of the earliest Judo books translated into english "Judo : Japanese physical culture : being a further exposition of jujitsu and similar arts" by Arima, Sumitomo, published in Tokyo, Japan, Mitsumura, 1908, 116p the author in frontispiece is described as Having "Yodan(Fourth grade)".
In another famous book "Judo" by Yokoyama, Sakujirō (1864 - 1914) and Oshima, Eisuke ; transl. Horiguchi, Yamakichi, Tokyo, Japan, Nishōdō, 1915, 297p. the author is not give a dan grade, but first picture insert shows "promotion of members from one grade to another".
In the french edition "Judo : manuel de jiu-jitsu de l'ecole Kano a Tokio" by Yokoyama, Sakujirō (1864 - 1914) and Oshima, Eisuke, Paris, France, Berger-Levrault, 1911, 209p. the author in frontispiece is referred "(7e degrè).
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