E-Judo

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
E-Judo

Judo network and forum


+2
Stacey
Q mystic
6 posters

    If you can run....

    Q mystic
    Q mystic


    Posts : 319
    Join date : 2013-02-10

    If you can run.... Empty If you can run....

    Post by Q mystic Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:55 pm

    Treadmill for running here, 0 degree incline...

    Just wondering about the aerobic base for judo. I have been running for some time on a treadmill.

    I have been running at my 70% hr (using the RHR and MHR formula) for an hour or more for 5 days/wk for near 6 weeks now.(basically running 1 hr at 5.6 mph, tho hr does get up to 85% over the last 15 mins)

    Is there a spot where I can feel I have near maxed my base aerobic system to just start to run fast(aerobic threshold) for 40 mins for some time(maybe 1 month?) until interval type training?



    I can JOG for an hour but die in the 1st 2 minutes of judo. Just getting back to judo tho. 6th class. I'm 5'8 and 170lbs. 43 yrs. Former long time heavy smoker.
    Stacey
    Stacey


    Posts : 554
    Join date : 2013-01-17
    Location : your worst nightmares

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Stacey Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:02 pm

    you might want to try doing a bit of sprinting - throw in a 30 second sprint here and there in your run. There's an endurance aspect to judo, for sure (says the woman who's been involved in judo for 20+ years), but there's also a sprint aspect. And, when you're at judo and you start getting gassed, actively work on relaxing and playing soft. When you get gassed and how you get gassed, and the first parts of your body to get gassed - that's all telling you stuff about resisting and how you're using your strength.

    And, above all, 6th class back and you're complaining about getting gassed? Sheesh!

    (btw, you did check with your doctor, get blood work done, etc, to make sure you're in good health to get back involved in all of this, right? Fatigue can be any number of things. Best to rule out the serious stuff BEFORE you start complaining. Don't mean to harp on you, but you're over 40.......)
    avatar
    Hanon


    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Hanon Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:21 am

    Q mystic wrote:Treadmill for running here, 0 degree incline...

    Just wondering about the aerobic base for judo. I have been running for some time on a treadmill.

    I have been running at my 70% hr (using the RHR and MHR formula) for an hour or more for 5 days/wk for near 6 weeks now.(basically running 1 hr at 5.6 mph, tho hr does get up to 85% over the last 15 mins)

    Is there a spot where I can feel I have near maxed my base aerobic system to just start to run fast(aerobic threshold) for 40 mins for some time(maybe 1 month?) until interval type training?



    I can JOG for an hour but die in the 1st 2 minutes of judo. Just getting back to judo tho. 6th class. I'm 5'8 and 170lbs. 43 yrs. Former long time heavy smoker.

    I warned you YEARS ago what smoking would do to you......... 43, you are still able to practice all aspects of judo. I agree with Stacey, go see your GP and get the all clear from a doctor.

    Please keep us updated on how you progress.

    Best of health,

    Mike
    cuivien
    cuivien


    Posts : 118
    Join date : 2013-01-15
    Age : 39
    Location : Norway

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by cuivien Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:33 pm

    I would like to echo Stacey's suggestion about doing sprints. IMO, benefits from just jogging doesn't translate all that well over to the mat
    Cichorei Kano
    Cichorei Kano


    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 864
    Location : the Holy See

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Cichorei Kano Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:01 am

    Q mystic wrote:Treadmill for running here, 0 degree incline...

    Just wondering about the aerobic base for judo. I have been running for some time on a treadmill.

    I have been running at my 70% hr (using the RHR and MHR formula) for an hour or more for 5 days/wk for near 6 weeks now.(basically running 1 hr at 5.6 mph, tho hr does get up to 85% over the last 15 mins)

    Is there a spot where I can feel I have near maxed my base aerobic system to just start to run fast(aerobic threshold) for 40 mins for some time(maybe 1 month?) until interval type training?



    I can JOG for an hour but die in the 1st 2 minutes of judo. Just getting back to judo tho. 6th class. I'm 5'8 and 170lbs. 43 yrs. Former long time heavy smoker.

    There is no such thing as "maxed my base aerobic system", at least not over time, since the aerobic system is dependent on your oxygen extraction and that depends on all kinds of factors including heart size, heart rated, systolic volume, arterio-venous different, systemic vascular resistance, lung anatomy and physiology, lean body mass, capillarization, enzyme availability, etc, and these change and can be changed over time. Losing fat and increasing lean body mass is significantly reflected in relative oxygen uptake.

    When speaking of an acute situation, whether you are now during this particular training bout "maxing your aerobic system" is assessed by whether you have reached your VO2max or maximal oxygen consumption. You have to actually 'measure' it through metabolic equipment rather than just 'estimate' it from general or vague formulas.

    The one thing I am missing in your post, and remarkably, I see that often in people ... they always do the same. If you have run for 6 weeks for >5 d/wk for 40 min, and have been doing that for that entire time, then something is wrong. What is wrong ? One of the principles of training is that you have to overload your system. If it was very hard for you 6 weeks ago to do this, then it likely is no longer today. If so, then why are you still running according to the same training regime, which now no longer is overload. You need to keep increasing what you are doing, either by speed, duration, inclination, whatever. In any case after a period of 6 wk you should be able to increase. A training should never be comfortable. From the moment it's getting comfortable, you are losing training effect, unless that training has a different purpose such as warm-up or a low volume/intensity training the day before a contest.
    Cichorei Kano
    Cichorei Kano


    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 864
    Location : the Holy See

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Cichorei Kano Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:08 am

    cuivien wrote:I would like to echo Stacey's suggestion about doing sprints. IMO, benefits from just jogging doesn't translate all that well over to the mat

    The physiology of judo is complex. Both aerobic and anaerobic qualities are important, next to a variety of strenth requirements, espec. explosive strength.

    The problem with sprinting or interval is that one can't properly do this unless one is already well-trained. You are absolutely right that these have great training effects, but ... the stress on the body, the risk of injury, etc., are much higher. Moreover, if it is on a treadmill, it requires skill in order to be comfortable to sprint on a treadmill, as well as the treadmill needing to be heavy duty, which usually exceeds the kind of treadmills for house use. If his speed now is only about 5.6 mph, then he is not going to be able to produce much of a sprint. Doing so may be more realistic for him to think of if he can run at speeds over 7 mph.
    afulldeck
    afulldeck


    Posts : 377
    Join date : 2012-12-30

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by afulldeck Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:08 am

    [quote="Cichorei Kano"]
    Q mystic wrote:
    The one thing I am missing in your post, and remarkably, I see that often in people ... they always do the same. If you have run for 6 weeks for >5 d/wk for 40 min, and have been doing that for that entire time, then something is wrong. What is wrong ? One of the principles of training is that you have to overload your system. If it was very hard for you 6 weeks ago to do this, then it likely is no longer today. If so, then why are you still running according to the same training regime, which now no longer is overload. You need to keep increasing what you are doing, either by speed, duration, inclination, whatever. In any case after a period of 6 wk you should be able to increase. A training should never be comfortable. From the moment it's getting comfortable, you are losing training effect, unless that training has a different purpose such as warm-up or a low volume/intensity training the day before a contest.

    Agreed, but let me add to CK. The high intensity to create overload condition in long distance running doesn't equal the high intensity of 2 minutes of judo and vis-a-versa the intensity of 1 or 2 minutes of judo doesn't equal high intensity long distance running. These are different sports, and hence, have different adaption patterns. That said, I would bet that your ability to handle running longer distance has improved over your training cycles...which is good if your running is your sport.

    This brings up the principle of SAID (Specific Adaption to Imposed Demands) which is at play here. The princple of 'specific adaption' is your the guide to improved (really focused) training protocols. Meaning, if your demands are not specific to the performance demands of your sport target, no functional adaptation will take place. In your case, you wanted improved cardio response while doing judo in a 1 to 5 minute match. This type of cardio response is more associated with longer sprints say 200m-400m. But better yet, stop and go sprinting against a partner or pushing and pulling sleds would show real improvement in your shorter matches. And yes, there is a higher chance of injury.....

    BTW, I am not saying long distance running is bad rather just not appropriate for your end goals. in fact, you might want to include some distance running as a general prepareness training cycle after a layoff or at the begining of a training cycle change.




    Cichorei Kano
    Cichorei Kano


    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 864
    Location : the Holy See

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Cichorei Kano Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:30 am

    [quote="afulldeck"]
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Q mystic wrote:
    The one thing I am missing in your post, and remarkably, I see that often in people ... they always do the same. If you have run for 6 weeks for >5 d/wk for 40 min, and have been doing that for that entire time, then something is wrong. What is wrong ? One of the principles of training is that you have to overload your system. If it was very hard for you 6 weeks ago to do this, then it likely is no longer today. If so, then why are you still running according to the same training regime, which now no longer is overload. You need to keep increasing what you are doing, either by speed, duration, inclination, whatever. In any case after a period of 6 wk you should be able to increase. A training should never be comfortable. From the moment it's getting comfortable, you are losing training effect, unless that training has a different purpose such as warm-up or a low volume/intensity training the day before a contest.

    Agreed, but let me add to CK. The high intensity to create overload condition in long distance running doesn't equal the high intensity of 2 minutes of judo and vis-a-versa the intensity of 1 or 2 minutes of judo doesn't equal high intensity long distance running. These are different sports, and hence, have different adaption patterns. That said, I would bet that your ability to handle running longer distance has improved over your training cycles...which is good if your running is your sport.

    This brings up the principle of SAID (Specific Adaption to Imposed Demands) which is at play here. The princple of 'specific adaption' is your the guide to improved (really focused) training protocols. Meaning, if your demands are not specific to the performance demands of your sport target, no functional adaptation will take place. In your case, you wanted improved cardio response while doing judo in a 1 to 5 minute match. This type of cardio response is more associated with longer sprints say 200m-400m. But better yet, stop and go sprinting against a partner or pushing and pulling sleds would show real improvement in your shorter matches. And yes, there is a higher chance of injury.....

    BTW, I am not saying long distance running is bad rather just not appropriate for your end goals. in fact, you might want to include some distance running as a general prepareness training cycle after a layoff or at the begining of a training cycle change.

    This has been classical issue in training for judo, but the solution is different. Simply adjusting intensity and duration so that your run matches the theoretical duration of a context may be tempting, but does not yield the expected result. That's the approach that was tried out in the 1970s. There are several reasons for that. A judo contest is not controlled by you, and it does not last 5 minutes either; the duration is impossible to know beforehand, although, yes, in theory one should be sufficiently trained to be able to withstand the maximal duration of a contest. In reality a judo contest (but one should bear in mind that this is not what the original poster asked since at 43 years old he is likely not aiming to become a national or international champions, thus the discussion is starting to move on an tangent towards optimal training) is neither aerobic nor anaerobic, but one of erratic and unequal switches between both (a decent read for that is Franchini E, et al.: Physiological profiles of elite judo athletes. Sports Med. 2011; 41(2): 147-166; I'm doing the physiology of women judoka myself, currently in press). For that reason, the optimal running training to support his kind of activity requires more than one type daily: 1 distance running training, 1 interval sprint training.

    This is all easier said than done and practically unrealistic for a 43-year old who has a past of a heavy smoker rather than that of an elite athlete. Even if one could do it, the recovery required from that kind of exercise is virtually incompatible with other duties such as a fullt-time job and family life. Beside that, there are serious reasons why people stick to jogging rather than sprinting exercise, even though the effect of certainly interval sprinting is higher. For example, adherence to sprinting interval training is way lower. That should not be a surprise: higher injury rate, and in order to do it you already have to be well trained. You can't really go interval sprint as a way to ... "take up training". Weather has a far more serious effect on sprint training than on distance running. You can go distance running even in the middle of town, in high-winds, rain, snow, in the woods, on concrete. Not so for sprinting. The margin of deviation from ideal weather is limited. Well, I am not blocking anyone from wanting to try out sprint intervals in snowy weathers, icing or high-winds, the effect of which likely will be that it will underpin what I have just said: far lower adherence. The consequence of that lower adherance is a quick loss of abilities, which then will seriously interfere with your sheer abilities to do the training next time weather or other conditions are better. A week out on sprint training is far more considerable than a week out for long-distance training.

    To optimize the yield for judo, it is not even enough to just run distance and sprint, but you also need to change the sprint-intervals from day to day and go from shorter to longer, quite difficult and demanding. You also need access to a track or high-performance sprinting interval. if one wants to select the single-most appropriate distance, then it is 800m interval-training. This obviously is not a mere matter of duration, since clearly a 800m run also is not 5 minutes. It's the effect of the training on enzymes, biochemistry and the ability one yields from this training to bridge both the longer and shorter options. Then again, this information in practice if of no use to the original poster, since who the heck can run 800 m interval runs ? Even elite athletes can't do it unless 800m is your distance. It's about the single hardest running option there is. Well, we all, or most of us can go run for 800 m, but truly sprinting for 800 m ending with in a time that reflects it was an actual sprint and then do one after another, no, very, very few can do that and the original poster won't be among it, not in a million years.

    So, in practice it becomes distance running. But the mode of that running can be optimized for judo. One does not need to go for 40 minutes straight. One could devote a selection of that to higher velocity or speed running. Sprinting within that range will have little effect unless one truly sprints which usually is not the case in people doing that. The importance of the distance running though is far greater than you suggest and not at all "not appropriate", but it needs to be 'supplemented' (not 'replaced') by other training in order to get the optimal effect for judo CONTEST FIGHTING (which I doubt is the original poster's goal). It's not a mere matter of optimizing lean body mass, and VO2max, but also the ability to continue at the highest possible proportion of that VO2 max, and distance running contributes to that (interval running does too, but still has the problems I raised such as poor adherence).

    With regard to specific training for judo, the obvious answer there is randori, but that is the classical thinking in judo which they too have been doing since the 1970s. In reality the yield of that is far less than judoka like to think. Firstly serious randori has a relatively high injury rate, much, much higher than that of running, for the simple reason that you have a contact training, that involves a resisting opponent, people moving around you, and a high level of unpredictability. Not so in running, with overload being really about the only risk, though in sprinting because of the issues mentioned before that risk (for example pulled muscles) is much higher unless one anorexic distance athletes with prone to stress fractures, compartment syndromes, or unless the distance run per week exceeds a certain level. Besides, doing randori with 20 different people has about zero guarantee that your strategy will have much of an effect on fight number 21 which might have a totally different pace, totally different grips by the opponent, total different arsenal of techniques, etc. Thus, randori is obvious essential as specific training and to continue increasing technical skills, but for the rest it is largely insufficient for optimizing judo physiological qualities.


    Last edited by Cichorei Kano on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total
    afulldeck
    afulldeck


    Posts : 377
    Join date : 2012-12-30

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by afulldeck Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:33 am

    As a former sprinter, I don't disagree that there are risks, but they can be mitigated by some careful planning. For example, instead of sprinting outside in the weather try doing the stairs in an appartment building. It much, much harder than you would expect. (I dread doing stairs...)

    That said, I found the best overall results for myself (outside of randori) came from training under Izumi Tabata protocol and/or Patrick O'Shea's Interval Weight Training Protocols. Both are absolutely brutal. Are you aware of any studies with respects to Tabata/O'Shea protocols and judo?
    cuivien
    cuivien


    Posts : 118
    Join date : 2013-01-15
    Age : 39
    Location : Norway

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by cuivien Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:28 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    The physiology of judo is complex. Both aerobic and anaerobic qualities are important, next to a variety of strenth requirements, espec. explosive strength.

    The problem with sprinting or interval is that one can't properly do this unless one is already well-trained. You are absolutely right that these have great training effects, but ... the stress on the body, the risk of injury, etc., are much higher. Moreover, if it is on a treadmill, it requires skill in order to be comfortable to sprint on a treadmill, as well as the treadmill needing to be heavy duty, which usually exceeds the kind of treadmills for house use. If his speed now is only about 5.6 mph, then he is not going to be able to produce much of a sprint. Doing so may be more realistic for him to think of if he can run at speeds over 7 mph.

    I very much agree that the stress on the body when doing sprints is much higher than for low-to-medium pace jogging.
    However, as I wrote in the strength training thread I have mostly stopped doing "traditional cardio" in favour of just more judo, supplemented with base lifts (squat, bench press, deadlift, and power clean) and small portions of HIIT (such as Tabata), and at least for me staying away from the long hours on the threadmill seems to be working great. For one, I have less pain in my left knee.
    Also, without having a single session of "jogging" since around early October 2012, I clocked a fairly decent 48m 26s on a 10k run while slightly hung over last week Wink
    Cichorei Kano
    Cichorei Kano


    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 864
    Location : the Holy See

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Cichorei Kano Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:11 am

    afulldeck wrote:As a former sprinter, I don't disagree that there are risks, but they can be mitigated by some careful planning. For example, instead of sprinting outside in the weather try doing the stairs in an appartment building. It much, much harder than you would expect. (I dread doing stairs...)

    That said, I found the best overall results for myself (outside of randori) came from training under Izumi Tabata protocol and/or Patrick O'Shea's Interval Weight Training Protocols. Both are absolutely brutal. Are you aware of any studies with respects to Tabata/O'Shea protocols and judo?

    No. But ... one must also realize that the use of eponyms ("Tabata protocol", "Gibala protocol") is something that is probably considered more 'cool' among fitness and strength training enthusiasts than it is among scientists. Only in some cases like really established scientific discoveries such as "A.V. Hill theory" or some generally accepted sports medical protocols ("Balke protocol"), but not very much for other things. Moreover, as far as I am aware the Tabata stuff is as recent as 1996 (as far as I know it was only published in 1997, specifically Tabata I. et al.: Metabolic profile of high intensity intermittent exercises. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 29, 3: 390-395, 1997) and really is offering nothing new. I provided in 1995 an extensive study on the effects of training of international elite judo athletes towards the 1992 Olympics (sorry, can't link to the study here), which contained a serious component of high-intensity interval; no one named it after me and also shouldn't because it was just chosen because of its easy of individual standardization and reference point. The work I published then focused on female judoka only because the metabolic effects were more interesting to me than those of male judoka because of my other research interests. What is by some apparently referred to as "Tabata protocol" for me that's just interval training, high-intensity training just like any serious interval training is high-intensity. Sure, in his case it apparently was at an intensity of 170% but those numbers mean little; it's just a number, just like the numbers of series that are so popular among strength training enthusiasts and which are really nonsense. They will say things like "well, uh huh you got to X series of 10 repetitions ....", which is of course nonsense. The body does not magically react to the number 10, so whether you do 9 or 11 repetitions does make one iota difference. Really, what it is about is about a 'decent number' of repetitions not really high, not really low, something " in the order of about a dozen or so". I do not have Tabata's study in front of me, and I have not memorized it. This is relevant because in terms of terminology there are issues. Things such as 'supramaximal' exercise, for example, is nonsense and impossible. If you supposedly are producing at supramaximal intensity then the only thing that means is that what you previously defined as 'maximal' was not 'maximal'. I don't remember the nitty-gritty stuff of his work. You can't just determine intensity in terms of a percentage speed of VI
    O2 max, since it depends on the conditions that VO2 max was measured; usually this is done at a graded test, and that can be done by changing inclination or wattage, or speed, but even then it is still graded, and the VO2 max is reached at a level of exhaustion that has accumulated. If you spread that test over a relatively long time then the speed will likely be lower than when spread over a shorter time or with an inclination. So to express intensity then as a percentage of that speed may become irrelevant. But I can't say for sure that this is how it was done, because I don't remember. Moreover, his work was about ice skating if a I remember well. I doubt that in 1996 he will have measured VO2 max during actual skating because the equipment for mobile tests was not widespread yet; I remember that because as far as I know I was in 1997 the first one to use it in judo. If his VO2 tests were measured on a treadmill or bike, then you can't really use that number to determine intensity of skating as the muscle groups in use are different. For example, in judo, VO2 max numbers are higher than in running and cycling because of the use of more muscle groups than in either of the two other activities.

    Now, Franchini's study quoted above does not follow the type of training but is build up rather on the specific parameter 'aerobic power', 'muscular endurance', 'muscular power', etc. However, if you look at table XII, you may find that interesting as he gives an overview of typical percentages of VO2 max at which judoka reached their ventilatory threshold.

    Franchini also writes that "Thus, although aerobic power can be relevant to juo performance, its development is not enough to discriminate the competitive level of judo athletes" (page 160).

    In a sense, I guess that is really what you mean too. But again, it is important as a foundation on which to build any other type of training, anaerobic or other.

    Unfortunately, rather than describing the advantages of anaerobic training, Franchini furher rather mentions just comparative numbers of absolute mean power and absolute peak power, relative mean power and relative peak power are given, usually as result of a Wingate test. This does not address how anaerobic training contributes to aerobic power or VO2 max obviously or to overall condition. This is not Franchini's fault since he is only describing what he has found that has been done. It's not his fault that the other stuff has not been investigated. My work which did include interval training is not in his biography likely because he did not come across is. The reason is probably my own fault. I published it as a medical study as it focused on the effects in a medical context, and I forgot to include the term 'judo' as a key word, so unfortunately one does not typically find it by using the search term judo. Even so, since in my own work the judoka were trained doing both distance and interval training, as well as weight lifting and judo, we did not discriminate between the effects of these different forms of training, since that was not the purpose of the work. The purpose was to study the metabolic effects and potential health risk of judo elite training.

    I must apologize for talking about so many things at once, when the answer in short --I guess-- just is that to the best of my knowledge no specific study was devoted to Tabata-protocol training and judo.

    afulldeck
    afulldeck


    Posts : 377
    Join date : 2012-12-30

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by afulldeck Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:59 pm

    You make me smile---- Are you taking a shot at the Canadian research (McMaster) / Scientist claiming they aren't scientists? (His publications are much later than tabata) Not to worry Canadians have thick skin and thicker heads.... However, I do take your point on Tabata and I do believe your right about exactness of nonsense 'reps' claimed by the commercial fitness industry. I've never bought that argument.

    Now we've twisted this thread a bit from the original intent, but for me its a search for the best training methods for our human life cycle in a sport that I'm interested in (personal knowledge only).

    So did your study show I am a lost cause when it came to the potential medical effects from my training? :-)
    Cichorei Kano
    Cichorei Kano


    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 864
    Location : the Holy See

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Cichorei Kano Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:42 pm

    afulldeck wrote:You make me smile---- Are you taking a shot at the Canadian research (McMaster) / Scientist claiming they aren't scientists? (His publications are much later than tabata) Not to worry Canadians have thick skin and thicker heads....

    No, no, no, no, noooooo. Honestly, not. I was probably just trying to stuff too much in one post. There are some excellent researchers in the field in Canada, and I like Canada, not so much the Toronto climate (too humid in summer, too cold in winter). Canadians (in real life) have always been welcoming to me and reached out.

    afulldeck wrote:
    Now we've twisted this thread a bit from the original intent, but for me its a search for the best training methods for our human life cycle in a sport that I'm interested in (personal knowledge only).

    So did your study show I am a lost cause when it came to the potential medical effects from my training? :-)

    Since the one study I conducted to which I was referring to was in women it did not show many relevant results for you. Women's physiology is far more complicated from a hormonal point of view.
    afulldeck
    afulldeck


    Posts : 377
    Join date : 2012-12-30

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by afulldeck Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:27 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Since the one study I conducted to which I was referring to was in women it did not show many relevant results for you. Women's physiology is far more complicated from a hormonal point of view.

    Living in a house with 3 females I would have to agree ...... no scientific study required...
    Q mystic
    Q mystic


    Posts : 319
    Join date : 2013-02-10

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Q mystic Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:46 pm

    [quote="afulldeck"]
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Q mystic wrote:
    The one thing I am missing in your post, and remarkably, I see that often in people ... they always do the same. If you have run for 6 weeks for >5 d/wk for 40 min, and have been doing that for that entire time, then something is wrong. What is wrong ? One of the principles of training is that you have to overload your system. If it was very hard for you 6 weeks ago to do this, then it likely is no longer today. If so, then why are you still running according to the same training regime, which now no longer is overload. You need to keep increasing what you are doing, either by speed, duration, inclination, whatever. In any case after a period of 6 wk you should be able to increase. A training should never be comfortable. From the moment it's getting comfortable, you are losing training effect, unless that training has a different purpose such as warm-up or a low volume/intensity training the day before a contest.

    Agreed, but let me add to CK. The high intensity to create overload condition in long distance running doesn't equal the high intensity of 2 minutes of judo and vis-a-versa the intensity of 1 or 2 minutes of judo doesn't equal high intensity long distance running. These are different sports, and hence, have different adaption patterns. That said, I would bet that your ability to handle running longer distance has improved over your training cycles...which is good if your running is your sport.

    This brings up the principle of SAID (Specific Adaption to Imposed Demands) which is at play here. The princple of 'specific adaption' is your the guide to improved (really focused) training protocols. Meaning, if your demands are not specific to the performance demands of your sport target, no functional adaptation will take place. In your case, you wanted improved cardio response while doing judo in a 1 to 5 minute match. This type of cardio response is more associated with longer sprints say 200m-400m. But better yet, stop and go sprinting against a partner or pushing and pulling sleds would show real improvement in your shorter matches. And yes, there is a higher chance of injury.....

    BTW, I am not saying long distance running is bad rather just not appropriate for your end goals. in fact, you might want to include some distance running as a general prepareness training cycle after a layoff or at the begining of a training cycle change.



    Thanks everyone for their input.

    Just going to respond to you a fulldeck as I understand what you are saying and I agree and I read CKs posts as well but here's kind of what I was told by a pretty high boxing coach...

    He said that if I just get out there, and assuming I even had the ability or body to do some hard judo every single night, it will cut short my personal potential. He says that if I dont teach my heart to take in a greater volume of blood/stroke, 1st off, then my hard judo training (sprinting even) would simply make me a stronger/faster heart pumping out the similar to same small strokes of blood and that my power endurance would be much weaker than it could be later in my training. He thinks that if I can run at a personal decent aerobic hr(called recovery hr for elites) for some time it will teach my heart to take a higher volume of blood/stroke before I make the actual heart muscle thicker, stronger and faster with the more intense training.

    He's like, 'get your heart used to working 'efficiently' at a decent level before upping its strength.' but...




    CK, I do understand you in that it should be progressive work but he ^(coach above in my paragraph) thinks that I should do the same as I've been doing for 6 months! Before I can hit up 'judo' hr. But I'm relatively healthy for a former smoker/drinker. On treadmill, which feels easier as the ground isnt so friction. Or something.lol. sry. But have never timed myself on ground.

    afulldeck
    afulldeck


    Posts : 377
    Join date : 2012-12-30

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by afulldeck Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:01 pm

    Well let's us know how the training works out for you.
    Q mystic
    Q mystic


    Posts : 319
    Join date : 2013-02-10

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Q mystic Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:18 pm

    afulldeck wrote:Well let's us know how the training works out for you.

    I do wanna just get in there, thats for sure. At 2 min matches and up...lol.

    Tho I do love running now. I was anti-endurance in my old comp days.lol. I think after 20 yrs of smokes and booze its around similar now after running.lol Seems I'm always 2 min max.


    Last edited by Q mystic on Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Q mystic
    Q mystic


    Posts : 319
    Join date : 2013-02-10

    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Q mystic Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:19 pm

    p.s. not doing anything physical outside of training for the next 2 months so I am trying to take advantage.

    Sponsored content


    If you can run.... Empty Re: If you can run....

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri May 24, 2024 9:20 pm