Has your terchnique ever improved as a result of something you've read here ?

In my case I can honestly say it hasn't. I enjoy reading about techniques but the only way I have ever got better at a technique is by being instructed on the mat - perhaps videos are better . I like to learn a technique from someone who can just ipponed me with it cleanly - however I realise due to age some instructors may not be able to do the technique anymore even though they still have the knowledge but this is usually pretty obvious. What about you ?

I cant really give an example. But Im sure reading and actively thinking about techniques has improved my game. Hearing about other peoples opinions and ways to do a certain move, is very helpful for your own development.

Dew wrote:In my case I can honestly say it hasn't. I enjoy reading about techniques but the only way I have ever got better at a technique is by being instructed on the mat - perhaps videos are better . I like to learn a technique from someone who can just ipponed me with it cleanly - however I realise due to age some instructors may not be able to do the technique anymore even though they still have the knowledge but this is usually pretty obvious. What about you ?

So you never read a post on the Judo Forum ... then went out and investigated the idea ... either by viewing the linked video or hitting the books?

An even slightly more indirect way ... have you never met someone on the forum then met them off line for an exchange? Never had anyone PM you and ask "I'm going to be visiting your area, may I bring a judogi and work out at your club?"

I have learned and applied a lot, I have also met people in judo who also use the forum. I can't see how your judo horizon can not be expanded through membership here (or there), just to read the opinions of thousands of judoka, read reports, articles and books, watch videos. Compared to the members of your own cub? Definitely.

As it relates to waza, again, how can it not? How can you read so many opinions and have them take no effect?

Never replaces matt time, but still rattles around the ol' noggin whilst training.

BillC wrote:

Dew wrote:In my case I can honestly say it hasn't. I enjoy reading about techniques but the only way I have ever got better at a technique is by being instructed on the mat - perhaps videos are better . I like to learn a technique from someone who can just ipponed me with it cleanly - however I realise due to age some instructors may not be able to do the technique anymore even though they still have the knowledge but this is usually pretty obvious. What about you ?

So you never read a post on the Judo Forum ... then went out and investigated the idea ... either by viewing the linked video or hitting the books?

An even slightly more indirect way ... have you never met someone on the forum then met them off line for an exchange? Never had anyone PM you and ask "I'm going to be visiting your area, may I bring a judogi and work out at your club?"

I have once or twice but I was never around - I have met for coffee but never for Judo.
I think it may be to do with they call "learning styles" in education. I think I may be what some people call a " Tactile/kinesthetic learner" whereas others learn in other ways - in reality we probably use combinations of all learning stlyes with different emphasis on each one. Take languages for example - I never learnt spanish from a text book or went to a single Spanish class - I learnt by talking with Spanish speakers in Peru and recognising patterns in the language which were similar to my own language - when I eventually did an exam I found out I had higher than graduate level Spanish . To me reading about a technique just does not compute - I have to learn techniques with a different part of my brain/body. The only way it makes sense is if I already have knowledge of the technique and then I think "ah I know what they mean" but wiothout that experience....nada.

Dew wrote:

BillC wrote:

Dew wrote:In my case I can honestly say it hasn't. I enjoy reading about techniques but the only way I have ever got better at a technique is by being instructed on the mat - perhaps videos are better . I like to learn a technique from someone who can just ipponed me with it cleanly - however I realise due to age some instructors may not be able to do the technique anymore even though they still have the knowledge but this is usually pretty obvious. What about you ?

So you never read a post on the Judo Forum ... then went out and investigated the idea ... either by viewing the linked video or hitting the books?

An even slightly more indirect way ... have you never met someone on the forum then met them off line for an exchange? Never had anyone PM you and ask "I'm going to be visiting your area, may I bring a judogi and work out at your club?"

I have once or twice but I was never around - I have met for coffee but never for Judo.
I think it may be to do with they call "learning styles" in education. I think I may be what some people call a " Tactile/kinesthetic learner" whereas others learn in other ways - in reality we probably use combinations of all learning stlyes with different emphasis on each one. Take languages for example - I never learnt spanish from a text book or went to a single Spanish class - I learnt by talking with Spanish speakers in Peru and recognising patterns in the language which were similar to my own language - when I eventually did an exam I found out I had higher than graduate level Spanish . To me reading about a technique just does not compute - I have to learn techniques with a different part of my brain/body. The only way it makes sense is if I already have knowledge of the technique and then I think "ah I know what they mean" but wiothout that experience....nada.

I see your points and agree with them. No one can learn judo from a book least of all from the written word on a forum. Nothing can, nor should, replace ones teacher and peers in a dojo on a tatami. I have never seen a forum as a replacement for a dojo but it is a supplement and can, on times, at the very least motivate a forum member to ask a question in the dojo.
The forum can also clarify on times what has been taught in a dojo.

A forum can also be a media used for social intercourse with like minded people. In that respect it can be a double edged sword but in general a forum for like minded people can be a nice place to sit a while and chat.
When judo gets into ones blood ...well chat away.....I know, don't say it!

Mike

I don't think my technique has directly changed, but judoforum has profoundly affected the way I think about judo, how I practice it and the way I conceptualize waza.

Dew wrote:
I have once or twice but I was never around - I have met for coffee but never for Judo.
I think it may be to do with they call "learning styles" in education. I think I may be what some people call a " Tactile/kinesthetic learner" whereas others learn in other ways - in reality we probably use combinations of all learning stlyes with different emphasis on each one. Take languages for example - I never learnt spanish from a text book or went to a single Spanish class - I learnt by talking with Spanish speakers in Peru and recognising patterns in the language which were similar to my own language - when I eventually did an exam I found out I had higher than graduate level Spanish . To me reading about a technique just does not compute - I have to learn techniques with a different part of my brain/body. The only way it makes sense is if I already have knowledge of the technique and then I think "ah I know what they mean" but wiothout that experience....nada.

Your question was about whether the forum improved your judo, not about learning style. You asked " Has your technique ever improved as a result of something you've read here?" Certainly talking about judo is quite different than doing judo. But learning ... even monkeys can learn things by observation followed by experimentation. Further, human beings have (most of the time) the mental ability to visualize, to compare without trying what they see, read, and hear with what they do. To me, that's the importance of judo books, the judo forum, YouTube, going to clinics, listening to long boring stories from sensei ... it's the way we monkeys start the process of copying the other monkeys ... so we can get a step ahead and kick their monkey butts.

It's not the learning in itself, it's the observation ... through words and pictures ... that new and different things are possible. It's the "that looks cool I'd like to try that" factor. Even students who I know are contemptuous of book learning (I'll skip the political characterization) in other areas often come to the dojo full of enthusiasm about something they have seen in one medium or another.

So yeah, I have read things here, tried them, and on rare occasion improved my judo. Meantime, my motivation and opportunities to do judo have improved mano a mano through some of the people I have met on the JudoForum.

It's a good tool ... thanks for keeping it alive.

BillC wrote:

Dew wrote:
I have once or twice but I was never around - I have met for coffee but never for Judo.
I think it may be to do with they call "learning styles" in education. I think I may be what some people call a " Tactile/kinesthetic learner" whereas others learn in other ways - in reality we probably use combinations of all learning stlyes with different emphasis on each one. Take languages for example - I never learnt spanish from a text book or went to a single Spanish class - I learnt by talking with Spanish speakers in Peru and recognising patterns in the language which were similar to my own language - when I eventually did an exam I found out I had higher than graduate level Spanish . To me reading about a technique just does not compute - I have to learn techniques with a different part of my brain/body. The only way it makes sense is if I already have knowledge of the technique and then I think "ah I know what they mean" but wiothout that experience....nada.

Your question was about whether the forum improved your judo, not about learning style. You asked " Has your technique ever improved as a result of something you've read here?" Certainly talking about judo is quite different than doing judo. But learning ... even monkeys can learn things by observation followed by experimentation. Further, human beings have (most of the time) the mental ability to visualize, to compare without trying what they see, read, and hear with what they do. To me, that's the importance of judo books, the judo forum, YouTube, going to clinics, listening to long boring stories from sensei ... it's the way we monkeys start the process of copying the other monkeys ... so we can get a step ahead and kick their monkey butts.

It's not the learning in itself, it's the observation ... through words and pictures ... that new and different things are possible. It's the "that looks cool I'd like to try that" factor. Even students who I know are contemptuous of book learning (I'll skip the political characterization) in other areas often come to the dojo full of enthusiasm about something they have seen in one medium or another.

So yeah, I have read things here, tried them, and on rare occasion improved my judo. Meantime, my motivation and opportunities to do judo have improved mano a mano through some of the people I have met on the JudoForum.

It's a good tool ... thanks for keeping it alive.

Woa there ! Actually my question asked if anyone's technique had improved as a result of something they've "read" here as opposed to pictures, videos etc Reading is not really an example of observational learning. Plus I specifically asked about whether technique had improved not Judo - Judo as a whole is much more than technique for me I definitely think ones Judo as a whole can improve as a result of reading - the comment on learning style was a possible explanation to the answers received.
As I said video is slightly better - youtube can be useful I guess - but for me nothing compares to the mat and having a full sized 3d ape in front of you going through the moves and physically positioning your appendages into the right place (I should probably rephrase that). I am not contemptuous of "book learning" - I'm actually doing Phd at the moment and love reading - I'm just making an observation that some people learn different things in different ways (ie learning styles) - me - I like to learn microbiology from a book and Judo techniques and languages from a real in the flesh person . I was just curious as to how useful people found written material in the techniques section in terms of improving their technique .
I would love to meet more people from the forum - but it never seems to happen - probably because I move around so much - maybe one day we will have the pleasure of strangling each other in person .

Dew wrote: Woa there ! My question asked if anyone's technique had improved as a result of something they've read here as opposed to pictures, videos etc Reading is not an example of observational learning. Plus I specifically asked about whether technique had improved not Judo - Judo as a whole is much more than technique for me - the comment on learning style was a possible explanation to the answers received.
As I said video is slightly better - youtube can be useful I guess - but for me nothing compares to the mat and having a full sized 3d ape in front of you going through the moves and physically positioning your appendages into the right place (I should probably rephrase that). I am not contemptuous of "book learning" - I'm actually doing Phd at the moment and love reading - Im just making an observation that some people learn things in different ways - me - I like to learn microbiology from a book and Judo techniques and languages from a real in the flesh person . I was just curious as to how useful people found the techniques section in terms of improving their technique .
I would love to meet more people from the forum - but it never seems to happen - probably because I move around so much - maybe one day we will have the pleasure of strangling each other in person .

Let's move in reverse order ... once again thanks for effectively moving the JudoForum ... though I notice today that we are no longer using that name.

And ... please recall that there were at least a couple of JudoForum camps ... one hosted here in the San Diego area ... additional camps were proposed but no one has stepped up. Judo Online camp?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were a pre-literate primate ... or even a Tea Party voter ... I recall you are in the process of piling higher and deeper ... I wanted to make the point that even some students I know who failed at appreciating Dr. Seuss occasionally read something that turns their judo on. I challenge even your narrower question about improving judo technique. If you are a habitual reader, and have the ability to sort through the content quickly, I bet you have gone from computer to mat more than a couple of times with a new idea you were itching to try out.

BillC wrote:

Dew wrote: Woa there ! My question asked if anyone's technique had improved as a result of something they've read here as opposed to pictures, videos etc Reading is not an example of observational learning. Plus I specifically asked about whether technique had improved not Judo - Judo as a whole is much more than technique for me - the comment on learning style was a possible explanation to the answers received.
As I said video is slightly better - youtube can be useful I guess - but for me nothing compares to the mat and having a full sized 3d ape in front of you going through the moves and physically positioning your appendages into the right place (I should probably rephrase that). I am not contemptuous of "book learning" - I'm actually doing Phd at the moment and love reading - Im just making an observation that some people learn things in different ways - me - I like to learn microbiology from a book and Judo techniques and languages from a real in the flesh person . I was just curious as to how useful people found the techniques section in terms of improving their technique .
I would love to meet more people from the forum - but it never seems to happen - probably because I move around so much - maybe one day we will have the pleasure of strangling each other in person .

Let's move in reverse order ... once again thanks for effectively moving the JudoForum ... though I notice today that we are no longer using that name.

And ... please recall that there were at least a couple of JudoForum camps ... one hosted here in the San Diego area ... additional camps were proposed but no one has stepped up. Judo Online camp?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were a pre-literate primate ... or even a Tea Party voter ... I recall you are in the process of piling higher and deeper ... I wanted to make the point that even some students I know who failed at appreciating Dr. Seuss occasionally read something that turns their judo on. I challenge even your narrower question about improving judo technique. If you are a habitual reader, and have the ability to sort through the content quickly, I bet you have gone from computer to mat more than a couple of times with a new idea you were itching to try out.

Hahaha !! Sorry Im a bit touchy due to my protruding brow. I can honestly say I haven't .... I dont even trust half the real life Judo teachers I meet - the only ones I trust are the ones who can actually do the technique on me repeatedly - then I know they know what they are doing (again apart from oldies with great credentials and then their students can demonstrate their efficacy anyway) .
PS Im in the UK - I have watched enviously from across the pond at those camps...

it all depends upon how brave you are really. if you're willing to ask specific questions (thereby admitting your knowledge of a technique isn't perfect) you can learn a lot. if you're willing to put up a video, then read the feedback you get, the learning can be much faster. but again you need to have a thick skin for that. mine is quite thick, so I learned a lot here.

I have improved a lot, on a fair amount of techniques. for example learning that the sweep on harai tsurikomi ashi should be straight back instead of diagonal, has helped me a lot. the thread on makoto judo forum about "the concept of harai" or whatever it was called helped me a lot too. discussing the weight distribution in tai otoshi has helped me immensely.

so really the best way to learn on a forum is to use it to learn what not to do, on techniques you already experiment with. I haven't learned any new techniques off the forum.

but I'm a very auditory learner, and I have a sensei who answers many questions with a demonstration. so to me forums have been invaluable.

a dojo buddy and I once had a conversation about judo books that I find applicable here. he said:

"buy a judo book and read it. you won't learn any new techniques. only idiots try to learn a new technique from a text description. you might read about a new technique you've never tried, but you still gotta find a sensei to teach it to you properly, or at the very least a video. what those books are good for is insight, you can gain valuable insight from reading someone else's thoughts on a technique, on a kata, or on competition mindset."

Has the forum ever improved a technique of mine? Maybe. On the old forum, there was a discussion of debana, a concept new to me at the time. I followed the thread closely, applied what I thought was an understanding and went to the dojo. I asked questions, and received some answers and a decent starting place to work from. Mat time was what improved specific throws. Having a starting point from which to work, or knowing what to ask for guidance on was helpful.

Some months later, and quite by chance, one of the folks who had posted some insight on the matter stopped by the dojo. Although we did not spend a lot of time working on debana, we did do some decent judo and were able to glean some insight from his lifetime of experience, and his interpretation of a waza.

Was a specific technique improved? Maybe. Did a post help me to improve my judo overall? Probably. Was the experience made better for having actually met the gentleman in question? Without a doubt. My thoughts for what they are worth.

Yes it has, the Kata section in particular. However, the biggest issue facing Judo in Australia is a lack of people doing judo. I gather this is a problem in many other forum user locations. The forum provides a diverse network of people that can share their experiences and obsevations on how to promote judo, how to keep a judo club running, how to get and retain new members and all that sort of stuff.

Someone once posted a youtube clip (on another forum) of a setup for Osoto Gari. It is one of my favourate techniques, but I struggle to do it in Randori. The clip showed that you set it up by going for Ouchi Gari and when Uke counters, you switch to Osoto Gari. I tried this and it worked first time!

A forum is just another tool in your tool box when it comes to learning a technique. I doubt anybody would claim to learn an entire technique from reading something, or even watching a video. You might be inspired to learn a technique from a video or something your read, but you can't learn a technique until you practice, practice, practice.

Now, for most people, the intro to a particular technique should not come online, from reading something or from watching video. The less experience you have with judo, the more this applies - if you can't differentiate between a charlatan and a gifted instructor, you should be doing most of your learning in the dojo. Again, I will say that if you're going to want to try a new technique in your dojo - a technique you've never tried before, you need to clear it with your partner, your coach, your instructor and even your sensei. DO NOT perform a technique you've never tried before live without first clearing it with your instructor and your partner. Somebody WILL get hurt.

That said, especially when new and between classes, reading, video, forums, etc, can be invaluable learning tools. Rather than having to sit stewing and trying to figure out and remember all of the stuff in a technique you were just introduced to, you can ask questions.

Later, you can ask about and experiment with different grips, different set ups.

Later, you find that video that you thought was crap and realize that the sensei/instructor was teaching a focused approach to a very particular part of that technique.

Dialogue in combination with real world experience and hands on learning seems to me to be an efficient way of learning.

Then, there are those who set up a video camera and record themselves with their partner executing a technique. They then post a link to the video here and ask people to criticize the technique. Somehow, I believe people are getting something out of the experience, something positive, and it's positively impacting their judo. To me, that's proof that you can and do learn something from posting and forum dialogue. I may not have the testicular fortitude for such an act, but for those who do? It's a pretty cool example of how effective the voices of online instructors can be. Even if you have to wade through more than a few post made by people who just want to hear themselves speak and try to derail a thread.

Guest wrote:In my case I can honestly say it hasn't. I enjoy reading about techniques but the only way I have ever got better at a technique is by being instructed on the mat - perhaps videos are better . I like to learn a technique from someone who can just ipponed me with it cleanly - however I realise due to age some instructors may not be able to do the technique anymore even though they still have the knowledge but this is usually pretty obvious. What about you ?

My uchimata has improved greatly due to what I have read on the forums. Also, I feel I'm a better judoka after spending years on the forums as my approach and mindset toward training has changed as a direct result of what I've read on the forums.