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In this site at recent post again claimed that it was Maeda who created BJJ.
Even if I must take the role of "anal-retentive, martial arts scholar" BJJ had very little influence from Maeda. BJJ as it is practiced today is very late innovation resulting from the rules it has. It was created (if any MA can be created) by Brazilians. BJJ has strong roots in Judo, professional wrestling and old jiu-jitsu.
1. Effect of emigrant Judo community in Brazil is "conveniently forgotten" from BJJ history. We have Judoka emigrating from Japan to Brazil, starting to do Judo classes in Brazil, having their decendants do Judo. Most importantly we have number of BJJ students that practiced Judo and did common competitions. See the historical Choque series for more info (RB bases his discussion on what Brazilian Newspapers printed)
Choque: The Untold Story of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil : Volume 2, 1950-1960, Pedreira, Roberto, United States, GTR Publications, 2015, 433p, ISBN13 9781505487169
Choque: The Untold Story of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil 1856-1949 (Volume 1), Pedreira, Roberto, United States, GTR Publications, 2015(2), 738p, ISBN13 9781508670582
Choque: The Untold Story of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil 1961-1991 (Volume 3), Pedreira, Roberto, United States, GTR Publications, 2015, 538p, ISBN13 9781507851142
2. Effect of visiting Judoka on Gracies forgotten even if we have direct evidence that Gracies attended see previous post here
3. Effect of other jiu-jitsu schools conveniently forgotten. See thread
Pires Dos Reis opens Jiu-jitsu school in Brazil
4, We know what techniques Maeda was teching. See thread
Standard old jiu-jits as demonstrated by Conde Koma aka Maeda standing techniques similar to Hancock but no ne-waza
5. There is scholarly discussion on this available to all. See previous discussion
about origins of BJJ and Judo in Brazil
Why state that BJJ was from “old japanese master”? Because this sells better.
If you want to discuss this subject further, please refer to independent documented sources; not "I heard that xx said that ..." That is make a reference to a book or a newspaper to support your statement. If you refer to books by Gracies then note that they are not independent sources.
Y-Chromosome wrote:Robert Sterling wrote:Yes, BJJ is a martial art, like Judo
BJJ is only indirectly derived from Japanese Jujutsu via Judo as represented in the person of Maeda. If Maeda cared so little for the distinction, that he didn't even bother to call his teachings Ju-DO vs Ju-JUTSU (usually transcribed as JITSU anyway)... I wouldn't think he'd have wasted much breath on the nuances differentiating the two.
...read by anal-retentive, martial arts scholars.
Even if I must take the role of "anal-retentive, martial arts scholar" BJJ had very little influence from Maeda. BJJ as it is practiced today is very late innovation resulting from the rules it has. It was created (if any MA can be created) by Brazilians. BJJ has strong roots in Judo, professional wrestling and old jiu-jitsu.
1. Effect of emigrant Judo community in Brazil is "conveniently forgotten" from BJJ history. We have Judoka emigrating from Japan to Brazil, starting to do Judo classes in Brazil, having their decendants do Judo. Most importantly we have number of BJJ students that practiced Judo and did common competitions. See the historical Choque series for more info (RB bases his discussion on what Brazilian Newspapers printed)
Choque: The Untold Story of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil : Volume 2, 1950-1960, Pedreira, Roberto, United States, GTR Publications, 2015, 433p, ISBN13 9781505487169
Choque: The Untold Story of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil 1856-1949 (Volume 1), Pedreira, Roberto, United States, GTR Publications, 2015(2), 738p, ISBN13 9781508670582
Choque: The Untold Story of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil 1961-1991 (Volume 3), Pedreira, Roberto, United States, GTR Publications, 2015, 538p, ISBN13 9781507851142
2. Effect of visiting Judoka on Gracies forgotten even if we have direct evidence that Gracies attended see previous post here
3. Effect of other jiu-jitsu schools conveniently forgotten. See thread
Pires Dos Reis opens Jiu-jitsu school in Brazil
4, We know what techniques Maeda was teching. See thread
Standard old jiu-jits as demonstrated by Conde Koma aka Maeda standing techniques similar to Hancock but no ne-waza
5. There is scholarly discussion on this available to all. See previous discussion
about origins of BJJ and Judo in Brazil
Why state that BJJ was from “old japanese master”? Because this sells better.
If you want to discuss this subject further, please refer to independent documented sources; not "I heard that xx said that ..." That is make a reference to a book or a newspaper to support your statement. If you refer to books by Gracies then note that they are not independent sources.
