Hanon wrote:Unsure where this thread is going? What are the
suggestions behind Hitler meeting with kano Shihan?
Numerous things spring to mind. Can anything be read into a meeting between these two people? Was any one at that meeting who can confirm what was said? Of course we could just read the German news papers of the day they would give a correct account of the meeting wouldn't they? I mean we all know Germany during that period had a completely free press............
I have the feeling that something is trying to be from nothing. I dislike this sort of thread intensely.
What is the difference between the village gossip and a historian? One of them is a professional.
History is not all about fact, it is highly subjective.
I dislike those who place a leader on a pedestal just as much as I dislike those who push peoples face in the mud. WE are never going to know what those meetings consisted of, we are never going to know what kano shihan thought of Hitler nor what Hitler thought of kano shihan. What we do know is the one caused the deaths of millions and the other has given a system of character development that has given millions a higher standard of living.
I have no idea if Kano shihan met the pope? IF they met does this make kano shihan Catholic?
To suggest we make use of articles published in the German press of that era is a complete nonsense.
I have this very uncomfortable feeling that some will do all they can to push yet
another mans life into areas of negative intrigue where there was non. Kano was many things to many people I have zero reason to even think of him as a supporter of war or those who waged it. His life's work speak to us today as if he where here. lets keep our feet on the floor and not start to make stories where there are non.
As a suggestion write on others as you would request those others to write about your son, yourself, your father and your grandfather. Supposition is not productive nor accurate.
Mike
This is the history section of a judo forum. One might expect an interest in judo history herein.
I don’t suppose. I’m not making suggestions. I research. Sure one must make some basic assumptions to give a framework to the research, but my final writings (none of which appear here) have references. I have the best suppositions in mind about folks but human nature tends to get in the way.
So far it seems to me that only you are reading something into the fact or absence of this meeting, or suggesting anything. I make it explicit – I personally hope this thread will go in the direction of adding info about Kano shihan’s contacts with German officials. If he met them, which he clearly did, and I hope to find more specifics, he was meeting with members of the Nazi government, the Reichssportsfurhrer, the premier of Bavaria. So what? I cannot imagine such a line of inquiry to be upsetting.
But good questions – I shall try to determine if Kano met the Pope. He was a very philosophic man, I expect he would have enjoyed that.
But, even if he met Hitler, does that make him a Nazi? I must have missed the part when someone said or implied that.
He did meet Hans von Tschammer und Osten, the Reichssportführer, "Reich Sports Leader", a colonel in the SA, and a very influential Nazi. He led what became first the Sports governing body of the Third Reich, Deutscher Reichsbund für Leibesübungen (DRL) "Sports League of the German Reich"; then in 1937 it was renamed Nationalsozialistischer Reichsbund für Leibesübungen" National-Socialist Sports League of the German Reich. Von Tschammer had the book ‘Sport und Staat’ commissioned – perhaps there is mention of meeting Kano in that.
http://www.od43.com/Sport_und_Staat_1934.html
Photo? http://www.budoforum.net/rr/kb1933.jpg
wdax wrote:Kano´s german was VERY good. This radio speech in 1936 was about 15-20 min and I heard a sequence of ca. 5 min.
Very nice find, thank you. What did he say?
That would make Kano Shihan at least trilingual – Japanese, English, German. He also read Chinese. I have never seen that he spoke any Chinese dialect but have a couple of refs that might shed some light on that.
Hanon wrote: NBK wrote:I find Hanon's comments not understandable. Interest in this is hardly trying to push someone into negative territory.
This early on in Hitler's regime, Germany still did have a relatively free press. Certainly that was more curtailed later, and certainly the major papers would be circumspect in tackling Hitler, but still there should be interesting information.
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??????????????????? Please study your German history. Germany had not had anything like a 'free press' for some time when the meeting took place.
No one by that time would speak or write a negative word about Hitler nor his regime. Many tried, it is still of interest and concern to me to note that during this period Hitler was having tens thousands of German people, from all walks of life, either assassinated or tortured (cleansed and questioned). Control of German maps leaving the country began as early as 1932-4. What Hitler did, what Hitler was, was never a secret to those who lived through that period.
As Robert wrote we are never going to know what the meeting consisted of. Further, Hitler was the 'leader' of Germany and may have met kano as a matter of diplomacy. Hitler was not the IOC representative for Germany and did not attend IOC meetings. Having written that, Hitler, without a doubt, had total and absolute control over every single action taken by any and all of his governing puppets including those responsible for sport and that would have included judo along with every other sporting activity.
I have always been fascinated in History my uncle being a professor of the subject. In particular European history of the period 1930 to 1950.
It was a core element in our second or third year of study at university to study the behaviour of Hitler. I have had to read books that made me feel physically ill. There are not too many psychiatric-psychological dysfunctions that cannot describe Hitler and many of his close followers. This was an 'evil' regime born from severe illnesses-dysfunction in most of his close circle. To the best of my present knowledge kano was not suffering from such illnesses and would not have supported Hitler's war movement, in fact the actions of kano speak for themselves.
Now if you truly desire to investigate some so called goodie two shoes who did sympathise with Hitler that's another story, that would make a very interesting list but they are all dead and Germany, also Japan have moved on. We now have another nation to concern us with regard world peace and have had for many years.
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Mike
My schedule is a bit busy to tackle world peace just now, thanks. I have some other projects ongoing.
I misphrased that bit about free press, but never mind.
My point is that a meeting between Hitler and Kano would almost certainly get press coverage, there would be witnesses, and both sides would have agendas. It would be unimaginable that Kano would use the opportunity to criticize Hitler for things not yet done. And even if it took place surely no reasonable adult would draw the conclusion that Kano was a Nazi sympathizer just because he met the head Nazi. (Jessie Owens came close to meeting Hitler- did that make him close to being a Nazi?) But the platitudes themselves would be interesting.
Off topic, recording this trip Kotani wrote of seeing a German jujutsu demo – there is also a two part article in Judo magazine of the era regarding ‘German Jujutsu’. Apparently there is a long history of jujutsu-like combatives / self defense in Germany. I wonder if Kano taught any judo while studying there for a year and a half. It would seem to be reasonable enough, given his history and personal interests, but I can’t recall ever seeing anything on it. Wouldn’t it be interesting to see if Kano had an influence on European ‘jujutsu’ in all its complex brutality??
And of course Kano’s actions speak some things, but his voluminous writings speak of other things.
I wouldn’t be so sure about Kano’s illnesses vis a vis some of Hitler’s cohorts – by this time Kano had less than 4 years to live, and was apparently already in declining health.
As you point out, Hitler had control of the government. And the government rolled out the red carpet for Kano; there was a special sports event held for the Japanese delegation, he met the senior German sports official, etc. So, one could say that you are saying that Hitler personally ensured that his government rolled out the red carpet for Kano.
I’d take another view, as I’ve seen no evidence to indicate Adolf’s personal involvement, but certainly the visit was not just some old man wandering around unnoticed. Given his status, fluency in German, and prior study in Germany, I would bet there’s more press to be found.
NBK
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What caught my eye from the first time I saw the photos from Vienna included in this article, was the jūdōgi of shihan's uke. I also saw similar things on other, even older photos, but to me, the black strips along the side of the zubon, and at the lower edge of the uwagi always rather remind me on some aberrancies of western budōgi fashion, more en vogue from the 1970ies onward, than to think "Japanese jūdōgi of somebody accompanying Kanō-shihan at an official trip in 1933". The sandan patch was also surprising me, as I thought both, Kotani and Takasaki, were already rokudan at the time of this trip.
