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finarashi
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    The unbleached or natural style judogi?

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    Mr_Michael_or_Mike


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    Post by Mr_Michael_or_Mike Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:10 am

    I've read that this type of gi was once ubiquitous in the dojos of the world, and it came before the bleached white judogi. If so when was the change? I believe that the blue gu got it's stat in the 1970s.

    Today, it's possible to find these type of judogi, but they seem to be entry level single weaves, or double weaves with incredibly long suso(?) or the bottom apron like part of the jacket.

    What are you thoughts on this type of judogi?
    Jonesy
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    Post by Jonesy Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:07 am

    What's in a colour?

    Above is worth a read.
    NBK
    NBK


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    Post by NBK Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:30 am

    Nice article.

    Natural cotton has oils and contaminants that leave the cotton beige or other off white colors.

    Over time even without bleach these wash out, leaving almost white cotton fibers.

    Most makers use bleached cotton fabric now because that's what their consumers expect. Unbleached in bulk is a bit cheaper so you typically find it in cheaper mass produced entry level keikogi.

    I think the wabi sabi emphasis on unbleached cotton can be overdone. In time it becomes a pretension of its own, which is hardly traditional.

    NBK
    A former cotton farmer
    BillC
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    Post by BillC Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:51 am

    Resurgent trend in judogi material? The Millennials tell me that hemp fiber is THE trend coming out of BJJ. I guess out of extreme concern for the environment or even the principle of maximum efficiency.

    Gotta do something with all those unwanted stems ...


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    NBK
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    Post by NBK Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:06 am

    Cotton was introduced to Japan hundreds of years after hemp.

    It could be that Kano shihan's famous gi is made of hemp - maybe that's why it's kept under glass.
    Jonesy
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    Post by Jonesy Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:38 am

    NBK - I agree that it is important not to overdo things. For me:

    1. The colour of a judogi is WHITE and NOT White or Blue.
    2. Blue judogi are only appropriate for those who require them for use at the level of competition that demands them. Not appropriate for everyday practice.
    3. Mix/split kits are an absolute no-no.

    Lets get some discipline back!

    Udon
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    Post by Udon Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:06 am

    Jonesy and NBK are traditional and correct . White is the color for judogi..if I am not mistaken the blue judogi was introduced by the IJF to make judo more of a spectator sport.
    NBK
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    Post by NBK Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:06 am

    Jonesy wrote:NBK - I agree that it is important not to overdo things. For me:

    1. The colour of a judogi is WHITE and NOT White or Blue.
    2. Blue judogi are only appropriate for those who require them for use at the level of competition that demands them.  Not appropriate for everyday practice.
    3. Mix/split kits are an absolute no-no.

    Lets get some discipline back!

    I don't see the mixes in Japan. The Kodokan frowns on blue gi, which you'll see more at university dojo. But I can't recall seeing a blue /!white mix here.
    NBK
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    Post by NBK Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:22 pm

    Why hemp? From a South African maker's website.
    http://gassho-hemp.com/why-hemp/4543861586
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    Anatol


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    Post by Anatol Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:35 am

    "Blue" is not a bad or inappropriate colour for a Judogi.

    Japanese Culture is deeply influenced by chinese culture and therefore it's not a miracle, that the meanings of colours in Japan derives from the "Wu Xing"  五行 (Five Phases) System, elaborated and established in Han Dynasty by the confucian scholar Dong Zhongshu 董仲舒 (179-104 BCE) (who also introduced the confucian education system for the bureaucrats) and came to Japan in the 6th and 7th century CE.

    "Blue" symbolyzes water, gentle, soft, yielding, pliant and therefore is a perfect symbol for "Ju" 柔 , like in "Ju Do".

    Also the colour of the modern IJF Judogi is Navy blue color (Konjō-iro, 紺青色 ).

    "Blue" is also a colour of everyday life and for students - fits perfect for practising and randori ...
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    Mr_Michael_or_Mike


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    Post by Mr_Michael_or_Mike Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:35 pm

    I sent a message to the kusakura shop, which I believe is a company related to the Kodakan. Here is what they said about the unbleached gi:

    Thank you very much for your inquiry.
    Actually, yes !
    This is a very high end product made with Japanese cotton (it's the only dogi in Japan, all brands included, for which the cotton raw material is grown in Japan).
    Japanese cotton being very rare, the quantity of fabric sewn is very low, and since this product is made to order only, the production time is about 2 to 3 months.
    The price is 57,000 YEN (about 500 USD) shipping included.
    It is available in unbleached version, and wazarashi (traditional bleaching process) version and the size available are the same as for the JOA or JNF models.
    You can place your order by sending an email to order@kusakurashop.com
    (We are considering offering it as a regular product on our website, as it's, without any doubt, the best Dogi ever made in Japan... The price is quite a deal breaker in the Japanese market, but we really love the product, so we want to give it a try on our International sites).

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    NBK
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    Post by NBK Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:01 pm

    Nice info, thanks.
    Jonesy
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    Post by Jonesy Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:25 am

    Great info. I want one.
    Jonesy
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    Post by Jonesy Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:25 am

    -


    Last edited by Jonesy on Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Duplicate.)
    finarashi
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    Post by finarashi Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:18 am

    I want one too, like I want a Tesla car and ...


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    NBK
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    Post by NBK Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:32 am

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike wrote:I sent a message to the kusakura shop, which I believe is a company related to the Kodakan. Here is what they said about the unbleached gi:

    Thank you very much for your inquiry.
    Actually, yes !
    This is a very high end product made with Japanese cotton (it's the only dogi in Japan, all brands included, for which the cotton raw material is grown in Japan).
    Japanese cotton being very rare, the quantity of fabric sewn is very low, and since this product is made to order only, the production time is about 2 to 3 months.
    The price is 57,000 YEN (about 500 USD) shipping included.
    It is available in unbleached version, and wazarashi (traditional bleaching process) version and the size available are the same as for the JOA or JNF models.
    You can place your order by sending an email to order@kusakurashop.com
    (We are considering offering it as a regular product on our website, as it's, without any doubt, the best Dogi ever made in Japan... The price is quite a deal breaker in the Japanese market, but we really love the product, so we want to give it a try on our International sites).
    KuSakura (literally 'Nine Cherry Blossoms') sells at the Kodokan but there's no relationship beyond that AFAIK.

    Here's their judo catalog. Check out the last page - never saw that before. Forward roll instructional gi top. http://www.kusakura.co.jp/2016catalog/003-052judo.pdf
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    cokiee


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    Post by cokiee Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:12 am

    I like how in the catalogue the blue gi is listed as being for international competitors. (:
    Jonesy
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    Post by Jonesy Sun May 22, 2016 7:20 pm

    cokiee wrote:I like how in the catalogue the blue gi is listed as being for international competitors. (:
    No-one else should need one.
    Jonesy
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    Post by Jonesy Sun May 22, 2016 7:20 pm

    Here is a film of the premium Dojin natural judogi: https://www.facebook.com/kusakurashop/videos/1032953196753698/
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    Post by cokiee Sun May 22, 2016 9:02 pm

    Jonesy wrote:
    cokiee wrote:I like how in the catalogue the blue gi is listed as being for international competitors. (:
    No-one else should need one.

    That's unfortunately not what many owners think!
    Jonesy
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    Post by Jonesy Sun May 22, 2016 9:06 pm

    cokiee wrote:
    Jonesy wrote:
    cokiee wrote:I like how in the catalogue the blue gi is listed as being for international competitors. (:
    No-one else should need one.

    That's unfortunately not what many owners think!
    Agree.
    LoL. Ditto back patches too.
    finarashi
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    Post by finarashi Mon May 23, 2016 4:12 am

    Actually according to IJF rules blue judogi is for loosers study study

    When you place competitors in brackets, you are supposed to place the better (i.e. winning) competitor to the side of the white judogi.


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    Post by russthejudoguy Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:25 am

    If you have ever heard the stories of what has to happen when an instructional video is being Filmed/Video Taped at the Kodokan, and there is a need for uke to wear a blue gi, then you know that the Japanese don't plan on giving up their preference for white as the official color anytime soon.

    I probably have five white uniforms, and only one blue one because I prefer the traditional color as well.

    That said if you are going to compete and those are the rules, you have to do what you have to do.


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    Taijutsuka


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    Post by Taijutsuka Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:41 pm

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike wrote:I sent a message to the kusakura shop, which I believe is a company related to the Kodakan. Here is what they said about the unbleached gi:

    Thank you very much for your inquiry.
    Actually, yes !
    This is a very high end product made with Japanese cotton (it's the only dogi in Japan, all brands included, for which the cotton raw material is grown in Japan).
    Japanese cotton being very rare, the quantity of fabric sewn is very low, and since this product is made to order only, the production time is about 2 to 3 months.
    The price is 57,000 YEN (about 500 USD) shipping included.
    It is available in unbleached version, and wazarashi (traditional bleaching process) version and the size available are the same as for the JOA or JNF models.
    You can place your order by sending an email to order@kusakurashop.com
    (We are considering offering it as a regular product on our website, as it's, without any doubt, the best Dogi ever made in Japan... The price is quite a deal breaker in the Japanese market, but we really love the product, so we want to give it a try on our International sites).

    I was intrigued by this judogi when I saw it in a video posted by KuSakura International in 2014 or so, and thought I would get one at some future point.

    I ended up doing so in 2020, when the entire site went on a deep sale, mostly to satisfy my own desire for such an old-fashioned judogi but also (genuinely) because I thought that it was a good time to support the infrastructure of judo companies during a year that was no doubt extremely hard on them. I bought the unbleached model, rather than the wazarashi model, as a top end unbleached dogi was a big part of the appeal.

    Briefly returning to that "old-fashioned" bit, it's interesting that in the début video from KuSakura International, this judogi features the IJF certification patch. It seems that the chief thing keeping it from re-certification with the 2015 rules is its weight, which is 900 gsm or so, and those rules stipulate a 750 gsm max.

    It's actually a bit funny, because the whole reason for that weight limit was to eliminate those cheating European-style judogi that felt like a piece of wood or cardboard when you went to grip them (made all the worse by the tendency of European judoka not to wash their judogi)… but the good Japanese judogi were never like this. Even the heavy weight weaves were pliable, and this KuSakura 'Dojin Master' is perhaps the most flexible judogi I've ever handled.

    In any case, I'm a bit glad I bought it after it lost certification, because in place of the ugly IJF patch (which is irrelevant to me as someone who will not be fighting international matches) there is a nicely embroidered KuSakura emblem.

    The judogi feels excellent to train in and, despite being a KuSakura (their most expensive model at that), it goes completely under the radar at the dojo–as I think the people who appreciate this model would want. I did not want to post about it until I had had the chance to train in it a few times, and as I was not training during 2020, it took a while.

    I am actually tempted to buy another good unbleached gi.

    Given the weak yen, the KuSakura is priced now (for those not paid in yen) about what I paid during the 20% off sale. If anyone has been considering it, I think this may be a good time.

    There are other options for a high-end unbleached judogi besides the KuSakura.

    The manufacturer in Aichi (Tanei, I believe) that makes the private-label keikogi for several Tokyo-area budo companies offers unbleached versions of most of its judo models. Iwata lists theirs directly on their new web shop as "Special Double Weave Unbleached"; as for Seido, I believe if you email them about the model you'd like, they can let you know how to order it in unbleached. The ones labeled "Traditional Cut" on Seido's site are judogi; the ones labeled "Special Aikido Cut" have shorter sleeves like on Kano Shihan's dogi, so not allowed in today's shiai. (Both brands sell these at a discount off the bleached price, because it saves them the cost of the bleaching process.)

    I've had very good experience with these Aichi-made dogi as well.

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