Transition from tachi- to newaza: the "Kasuga lock" as kaeshi-waza

Very nice, I'd only warn to make sure tori clearly stops uke momemtum and gets well to the side to avoid getting rolled over. Seoi Otoshi specialists are VERY adept and finishing from the knees. I'll be showing that one tomorrow night to the senior class.

Ben

Ben Reinhardt wrote:Very nice, I'd only warn to make sure tori clearly stops uke momemtum and gets well to the side to avoid getting rolled over. Seoi Otoshi specialists are VERY adept and finishing from the knees. I'll be showing that one tomorrow night to the senior class.

Ben

I agree with you. Moreover, I would be very hesitant to try this out in competition as I anticipate that the majority of refs will simply award ippon to the opponent from the moment you touch the tatami with your back even if clearly initiated by you !

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Ben Reinhardt wrote:Very nice, I'd only warn to make sure tori clearly stops uke momemtum and gets well to the side to avoid getting rolled over. Seoi Otoshi specialists are VERY adept and finishing from the knees. I'll be showing that one tomorrow night to the senior class.

Ben

I agree with you. Moreover, I would be very hesitant to try this out in competition as I anticipate that the majority of refs will simply award ippon to the opponent from the moment you touch the tatami with your back even if clearly initiated by you !

At the moment the majorityt of refs would give you a hansokumake for leg-grabbing (no joke!!!!)

wdax wrote:

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Ben Reinhardt wrote:Very nice, I'd only warn to make sure tori clearly stops uke momemtum and gets well to the side to avoid getting rolled over. Seoi Otoshi specialists are VERY adept and finishing from the knees. I'll be showing that one tomorrow night to the senior class.

Ben

I agree with you. Moreover, I would be very hesitant to try this out in competition as I anticipate that the majority of refs will simply award ippon to the opponent from the moment you touch the tatami with your back even if clearly initiated by you !

At the moment the majority of refs would give you a hansokumake for leg-grabbing (no joke!!!!)

And I thought it was a prerequisite to have some understanding of Judo to be a Judo referee (just kidding).

It's all about the trips anyway.

Ben

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Ben Reinhardt wrote:Very nice, I'd only warn to make sure tori clearly stops uke momemtum and gets well to the side to avoid getting rolled over. Seoi Otoshi specialists are VERY adept and finishing from the knees. I'll be showing that one tomorrow night to the senior class.

Ben

I agree with you. Moreover, I would be very hesitant to try this out in competition as I anticipate that the majority of refs will simply award ippon to the opponent from the moment you touch the tatami with your back even if clearly initiated by you !

That was a problem for me for a while many years ago. A guy would drop, I'd stop the throw, enter ne waza and lose via throw by ippon. Now it's all about the sprawl first and ne waza second.

I think it would work if you really squashed the dropper. I suspect that it's easily blocked by stretching out the far leg, but that would open up other attacks, as I'm sure Mr. Komura has several others he can follow up with!

Ben

i really love komura's instructional videos, they have a ton of detail, and getting to see him use the techniques in competition really helps to show how they work under pressure.

a nice technique unfortunatly doomed under the new IJF rules which interdict the grabbing of the leg from a Tachi wasa position. Sorry we need to adjust.

forgeron judo wrote:a nice technique unfortunatly doomed under the new IJF rules which interdict the grabbing of the leg from a Tachi wasa position. Sorry we need to adjust.

... in competition under IJF rules, not in randori or competition under Kôdôkan rules.

I agree with your last comment. Considering that only 5% of our students will ever participate in IJF-ruled competition, it is not my intentions to restrict the majority from attempting a variety of techniques that have proven effective and by which the judoka can excell in the application of judo principles. Nevertheless, we should warn the to-be IJF competitors of the new Spectacle-Oriented rules so that they not become disqualified.

Leg grabs are allowed in Ne waza arent they? This can be considered ne waza if it isnt a continuous motion right?

Dutch Budo wrote:Leg grabs are allowed in Ne waza arent they? This can be considered ne waza if it isnt a continuous motion right?

Is this a newaza situation ?

Perhaps what you mean to say is rather a "skillful TRANSITION to newaza" ?

But if so, the question then becomes ... is it allowed to grab the legs in a skillful transition to newaza ? After all the transition comes from somewhere. From where ? From tachi-waza, and wasn't the new role that the leg grabs are not allowed in tachi-waza ? Does it then matter whether the leg grab occurred as part of a throw in tachi-waza or a skillful transition ?

Maybe this is not what you meant, but it is then still a useful thinking exercise for some trying to understand the situation.

P.S.: Not sure though why someone gave negative marks to you, even if you would be erring.

Cichorei Kano wrote:Perhaps what you mean to say is rather a "skillful TRANSITION to newaza" ?

But if so, the question then becomes ... is it allowed to grab the legs in a skillful transition to newaza ? After all the transition comes from somewhere. From where ? From tachi-waza, and wasn't the new role that the leg grabs are not allowed in tachi-waza ? Does it then matter whether the leg grab occurred as part of a throw in tachi-waza or a skillful transition ?

Perhaps this can help to understand how the IJF wants to cripple judo:
http://refereeusb.judobase.org/live/hidden/app/index.html

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Dutch Budo wrote:Leg grabs are allowed in Ne waza arent they? This can be considered ne waza if it isnt a continuous motion right?

Is this a newaza situation ?

Perhaps what you mean to say is rather a "skillful TRANSITION to newaza" ?

But if so, the question then becomes ... is it allowed to grab the legs in a skillful transition to newaza ? After all the transition comes from somewhere. From where ? From tachi-waza, and wasn't the new role that the leg grabs are not allowed in tachi-waza ? Does it then matter whether the leg grab occurred as part of a throw in tachi-waza or a skillful transition ?

Maybe this is not what you meant, but it is then still a useful thinking exercise for some trying to understand the situation.

P.S.: Not sure though why someone gave negative marks to you, even if you would be erring.

I was just thinking that if you would block the throw (by sprawling for instance). Then move to this move, it would be considered ne waza and you could use this technique. If it is done the way its shown in the video it probably would lead to hansukomake.

The negative vote was a mistake, I got a pm about it.