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http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/21427455
Maybe the IJF knew something was in the wind?
Maybe the IJF knew something was in the wind?
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tafftaz
afulldeck
Kasrkin
radzfman
JudoStu
Shindai Warrior
seatea
nomoremondays
BillC
Stacey
judoratt
cuivien
finarashi
Ricebale
ItchyKomi
19 posters
Wrestling dropped by IOC
ItchyKomi- Posts : 22
Join date : 2012-12-31
Ricebale- Posts : 423
Join date : 2013-01-01
Location : Wollongong Australia
Yeah just saw that, big call, the Judo dudes were ahead of the game on this one
Must be a commercial decision because the USA and other big countries do well in this sport
Must be a commercial decision because the USA and other big countries do well in this sport
Guest- Guest
The board voted after reviewing a report by the IOC program commission report that analyzed 39 criteria, including television ratings, ticket sales, anti-doping policy and global participation and popularity. With no official rankings or recommendations contained in the report, the final decision by the 15-member board was also subject to political, emotional and sentimental factors.
I'm stunned by this news. The quote above was taken from the ESPN article I read. It would seem to me that Wrestling would meet the criteria listed above. Granted, I understand that's not all the criteria but the key ones above I thought would keep Wrestling safe in my opinion. In the United States Wrestling is far more popular than Judo and a lot of other Summer Olympic sports. What is the popularity in other countries where other forum members live?
finarashi- Posts : 507
Join date : 2013-01-11
Location : Finland
basically
- practically no women in wrestling
- low or nonexistent womens world championships, continental championships, national championships
- very few countries participate to olympics in wrestling
- very low participation in those countries where it is practiced
- two wrestling forms with 18 golds and no agreement on how to decrease competitors and medals
- very few networks buy wrestling TV- package (compared to taekwondo, judo, ... )
- low ticket sales (compared to taekwondo, judo, ... )
- no major nation that would back wrestling (japan is for Judo, Korea is for taekwondo, but who is for wrestling ...)
All of this has been visible for about a decade. Some progress has been made in e.g. womens wrestling but ....
- practically no women in wrestling
- low or nonexistent womens world championships, continental championships, national championships
- very few countries participate to olympics in wrestling
- very low participation in those countries where it is practiced
- two wrestling forms with 18 golds and no agreement on how to decrease competitors and medals
- very few networks buy wrestling TV- package (compared to taekwondo, judo, ... )
- low ticket sales (compared to taekwondo, judo, ... )
- no major nation that would back wrestling (japan is for Judo, Korea is for taekwondo, but who is for wrestling ...)
All of this has been visible for about a decade. Some progress has been made in e.g. womens wrestling but ....
cuivien- Posts : 118
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 40
Location : Norway
Roughly 5300 registered members in the Norwegian Wrestling Association (which is also the place to go if interested in sumo, arm wrestling, or "sand wrestling"). I.e. "not a lot".
Something like 12 people on the national team (both male and female, senior and junior)
Something like 12 people on the national team (both male and female, senior and junior)
Guest- Guest
finarashi wrote:basically
- practically no women in wrestling
- low or nonexistent womens world championships, continental championships, national championships
- very few countries participate to olympics in wrestling
- very low participation in those countries where it is practiced
- two wrestling forms with 18 golds and no agreement on how to decrease competitors and medals
- very few networks buy wrestling TV- package (compared to taekwondo, judo, ... )
- low ticket sales (compared to taekwondo, judo, ... )
- no major nation that would back wrestling (japan is for Judo, Korea is for taekwondo, but who is for wrestling ...)
All of this has been visible for about a decade. Some progress has been made in e.g. womens wrestling but ....
Thanks for the reply. If your points are accurate I think that’s fair. I guess I thought Wrestling was far more popular than it really is. The United States has a strong Wrestling community. I would venture to guess that the ratio is at least 100:1 when it comes to comparing youth participation in Wrestling vs. Judo in the United States. It has always been my impression that Wrestling was well backed and funded in the United States and it was also my impression that other major nations had similar backing of Wrestling.
When you reference the female participation I wonder if the inclusion of women’s championships in Judo saved Judo from seeing the same fate in the Olympics.
judoratt- Posts : 309
Join date : 2012-12-30
Age : 67
Location : Seattle
ItchyKomi wrote:http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/21427455
Maybe the IJF knew something was in the wind?
You bet they did for at least the last four years.
ItchyKomi- Posts : 22
Join date : 2012-12-31
Agreed judoratt.
In light of what has happened to wrestling is anyone more understanding of the multiple rule changes?
In light of what has happened to wrestling is anyone more understanding of the multiple rule changes?
judoratt- Posts : 309
Join date : 2012-12-30
Age : 67
Location : Seattle
ItchyKomi wrote:Agreed judoratt.
In light of what has happened to wrestling is anyone more understanding of the multiple rule changes?
We need to get closer to Beach Volleyball
than wresteling. 
Ricebale- Posts : 423
Join date : 2013-01-01
Location : Wollongong Australia
USA style of wrestling is not in the Olympics
Stacey- Posts : 554
Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : your worst nightmares
yet the historic value of wrestling isn't mentioned, nor are women wrestlers given the chance to develop, develop their own programs and championships, coaching, etc.
We're talking wrestling, people. That it was included in the earliest Olympics should count for something. That it's hotly contested in the US, former soviet union, China, and other countries should count for something.
That it's a male dominated sport that needs to figure out how to accommodate women should count for something.
I do love watching wrestling at that level. Yes, it's not the same sport exactly as the one in the NCAAs, but really, are the differences that huge?
I guess I'm just flummoxed; they're keeping ballroom dancing but chucking wrestling? Ballroom dancing, while athletic, is a performance, not a sport. Wrestling is an ancient sport and I for one will miss it. I won't resort to watching ballroom dancing, and I certainly won't bother watching golf. If wrestling's out, then wrestling's out. Unless they start actually showing more judo, that's just less Olympics for me to watch.
We're talking wrestling, people. That it was included in the earliest Olympics should count for something. That it's hotly contested in the US, former soviet union, China, and other countries should count for something.
That it's a male dominated sport that needs to figure out how to accommodate women should count for something.
I do love watching wrestling at that level. Yes, it's not the same sport exactly as the one in the NCAAs, but really, are the differences that huge?
I guess I'm just flummoxed; they're keeping ballroom dancing but chucking wrestling? Ballroom dancing, while athletic, is a performance, not a sport. Wrestling is an ancient sport and I for one will miss it. I won't resort to watching ballroom dancing, and I certainly won't bother watching golf. If wrestling's out, then wrestling's out. Unless they start actually showing more judo, that's just less Olympics for me to watch.
BillC- Posts : 806
Join date : 2012-12-28
Location : Vista, California
Stacey wrote:yet the historic value of wrestling isn't mentioned, nor are women wrestlers given the chance to develop, develop their own programs and championships, coaching, etc.
We're talking wrestling, people. That it was included in the earliest Olympics should count for something. That it's hotly contested in the US, former soviet union, China, and other countries should count for something.
That it's a male dominated sport that needs to figure out how to accommodate women should count for something.
I do love watching wrestling at that level. Yes, it's not the same sport exactly as the one in the NCAAs, but really, are the differences that huge?
I guess I'm just flummoxed; they're keeping ballroom dancing but chucking wrestling? Ballroom dancing, while athletic, is a performance, not a sport. Wrestling is an ancient sport and I for one will miss it. I won't resort to watching ballroom dancing, and I certainly won't bother watching golf. If wrestling's out, then wrestling's out. Unless they start actually showing more judo, that's just less Olympics for me to watch.
My guess is that wrestling will survive, maybe barely miss a beat in the US. Maybe where there is a strong local tradition too. FILA ... or its successor ... will simply shift the emphasis to in house events and world championships. Where sports depend on sports ministries for financing, and where bringing home Olympic medals is paramount maybe it will die off.
Wish Judo were so lucky.
judoratt wrote:
We need to get closer to Beach Volleyball
Dude, don't be sukebe. You wanna watch women of all sizes and shapes grapple for dominance wearing the minimum of clothing ... well, I know this place in Portland ...
nomoremondays- Posts : 122
Join date : 2013-01-03
Location : Looking for Stars (sort of)
Dave R. wrote:The board voted after reviewing a report by the IOC program commission report that analyzed 39 criteria, including television ratings, ticket sales, anti-doping policy and global participation and popularity. With no official rankings or recommendations contained in the report, the final decision by the 15-member board was also subject to political, emotional and sentimental factors.
finarashi wrote:basically
- practically no women in wrestling
- low or nonexistent womens world championships, continental championships, national championships
- very few countries participate to olympics in wrestling
- very low participation in those countries where it is practiced
- two wrestling forms with 18 golds and no agreement on how to decrease competitors and medals
- very few networks buy wrestling TV- package (compared to taekwondo, judo, ... )
- low ticket sales (compared to taekwondo, judo, ... )
- no major nation that would back wrestling (japan is for Judo, Korea is for taekwondo, but who is for wrestling ...)
All of this has been visible for about a decade. Some progress has been made in e.g. womens wrestling but ....
Even more than all the equestrian (sp?) sports put together. I am stunned. I would definitely like to see a public version of that "report" though I can see what the chances of that happening are...
off topic: Dave R., the new avatar is sub par compared to the old one Here is a petition of one to bring that back :-)
ItchyKomi wrote:...
In light of what has happened to wrestling is anyone more understanding of the multiple rule changes?
Oh ItchyKomi, believe me we (I) understand. And we have always understood. But the disagreement has never been about that but of the principle of it. In any case, this is an off topic so I won't address it any further here.
Guest- Guest
[quote="nomoremondays]
off topic: Dave R., the new avatar is sub par compared to the old one Here is a petition of one to bring that back :-)[/quote]
I was kindly asked to change it and I gladly complied. Besides, my new avatar is of the Italian Spiderman. That has to count for something...
off topic: Dave R., the new avatar is sub par compared to the old one Here is a petition of one to bring that back :-)[/quote]
I was kindly asked to change it and I gladly complied. Besides, my new avatar is of the Italian Spiderman. That has to count for something...
nomoremondays- Posts : 122
Join date : 2013-01-03
Location : Looking for Stars (sort of)
Dave R. wrote:[quote="nomoremondays]
off topic: Dave R., the new avatar is sub par compared to the old one Here is a petition of one to bring that back :-)
I was kindly asked to change it and I gladly complied.
Phooey!!
Dave R. wrote:
Besides, my new avatar is of the Italian Spiderman. That has to count for something...
I am more of a fan of the spanish spiderman personally
seatea- Posts : 211
Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : England.
finarashi wrote:basically
- practically no women in wrestling
- low or nonexistent womens world championships, continental championships, national championships
- very few countries participate to olympics in wrestling
- very low participation in those countries where it is practiced
- two wrestling forms with 18 golds and no agreement on how to decrease competitors and medals
- very few networks buy wrestling TV- package (compared to taekwondo, judo, ... )
- low ticket sales (compared to taekwondo, judo, ... )
- no major nation that would back wrestling (japan is for Judo, Korea is for taekwondo, but who is for wrestling ...)
All of this has been visible for about a decade. Some progress has been made in e.g. womens wrestling but ....
Would not Russia stand up for wrestling?
finarashi- Posts : 507
Join date : 2013-01-11
Location : Finland
The FILA member list is
Membres du Bureau de la FILA
Name Country title
M. MARTINETTI Raphaël SUI Président
M. AYIK Ahmet TUR Vice-Président
M. DZIEDZIC Stan USA Vice-Président
M. FUKUDA Tomiaki JPN Vice-Président
Dr PELLICONE Matteo ITA Vice-Président
M. DUSSON Michel FRA Secrétaire Général
M. AL SHAHRANI Zamel Sayyaf QAT Membre du Bureau FILA
M. ALIYEV Namig AZE Membre du Bureau FILA
M. HAMAKOS Theodoros GRE Membre du Bureau FILA
Dr HEGEDÜS Csaba HUN Membre du Bureau FILA
M. KIM Ik-Jong KOR Membre du Bureau FILA
M. LALOVIC Nenad SRB Membre du Bureau FILA
M. MAMIASHVILI Mikhail RUS Membre du Bureau FILA
M. RUZIEV Akhroldjan UZB Membre du Bureau FILA
M. TURLYKHANOV Daulet KAZ Membre du Bureau FILA
M. TZENOV Tzeno BUL Membre du Bureau FILA
Mme YAKSI Rodica Maria TUR Membre du Bureau FILA
Mme YARIGUINA Natalia RUS Membre du Bureau FILA
Dr KIM Chang-Kew KOR Président Continental
M. LEE LOPEZ Francisco Eduardo GUA Président Continental
M. TARKONG John Jr PLW Président Continental
M. ZAHIR Mohammed Ibnou MAR Président Continental
If one compares that list to top 40 countries in TV-revenue and discounts USA, Japan and Korea (see previous post9 then all others are fairly small. If the question is about revenue from participation to OG then wrestling is not so well represented. i.e. dropping wrestling and including golf means more $$$$ in tv and other broadcast revenue. Im sure USA cares more about the possible broadcast price than history.
But why modern? pentathlon was not dropped that is the interesting question. High price, no tv, no audience ...
Membres du Bureau de la FILA
Name Country title
M. MARTINETTI Raphaël SUI Président
M. AYIK Ahmet TUR Vice-Président
M. DZIEDZIC Stan USA Vice-Président
M. FUKUDA Tomiaki JPN Vice-Président
Dr PELLICONE Matteo ITA Vice-Président
M. DUSSON Michel FRA Secrétaire Général
M. AL SHAHRANI Zamel Sayyaf QAT Membre du Bureau FILA
M. ALIYEV Namig AZE Membre du Bureau FILA
M. HAMAKOS Theodoros GRE Membre du Bureau FILA
Dr HEGEDÜS Csaba HUN Membre du Bureau FILA
M. KIM Ik-Jong KOR Membre du Bureau FILA
M. LALOVIC Nenad SRB Membre du Bureau FILA
M. MAMIASHVILI Mikhail RUS Membre du Bureau FILA
M. RUZIEV Akhroldjan UZB Membre du Bureau FILA
M. TURLYKHANOV Daulet KAZ Membre du Bureau FILA
M. TZENOV Tzeno BUL Membre du Bureau FILA
Mme YAKSI Rodica Maria TUR Membre du Bureau FILA
Mme YARIGUINA Natalia RUS Membre du Bureau FILA
Dr KIM Chang-Kew KOR Président Continental
M. LEE LOPEZ Francisco Eduardo GUA Président Continental
M. TARKONG John Jr PLW Président Continental
M. ZAHIR Mohammed Ibnou MAR Président Continental
If one compares that list to top 40 countries in TV-revenue and discounts USA, Japan and Korea (see previous post9 then all others are fairly small. If the question is about revenue from participation to OG then wrestling is not so well represented. i.e. dropping wrestling and including golf means more $$$$ in tv and other broadcast revenue. Im sure USA cares more about the possible broadcast price than history.
But why modern? pentathlon was not dropped that is the interesting question. High price, no tv, no audience ...
Shindai Warrior- Posts : 14
Join date : 2013-01-21
Location : Toon Town
It would be wise for those interested in the traditions of Judo to reflect.
To remember how it thrived. How it was marketed to potential students long before the days of government grants.
Judo is strong in our affections, but as a money maker of TV ad dollars and ratings, Olympic Salsa dancing could displace it easily.
To remember how it thrived. How it was marketed to potential students long before the days of government grants.
Judo is strong in our affections, but as a money maker of TV ad dollars and ratings, Olympic Salsa dancing could displace it easily.
JudoStu- Posts : 212
Join date : 2013-01-04
Age : 52
Location : UK
As I understand it, a lot of the rule changes made in Judo were brought about to help differentiate it from Wrestling and thus ensure Judo kept its Olympic status. With Wrestling now gone are we likely to see the Judo rules of the 1970’s come back?
Guest- Guest
JudoStu wrote:As I understand it, a lot of the rule changes made in Judo were brought about to help differentiate it from Wrestling and thus ensure Judo kept its Olympic status. With Wrestling now gone are we likely to see the Judo rules of the 1970’s come back?
I highly doubt it.
Honestly, I don't know what the Judo rules in the 1970's were like but if reverting the rules means going back to where the -60 - -73kg divisions are single-legging to death then no thanks. Prior to the 2010 rule changes those divisions were darn near unwatchable. If reverting also means seeing competitors try and win in unconventional manners (i.e. winner by shido) then no thanks.
radzfman- Posts : 35
Join date : 2013-01-19
ITs been reported the Russian Olympic committee is going to make a formal protest to the IOC. Hope Putin can strong arm the IOC. But there are so many other money interest and the IOC is trying to steer away from combat sports. I dont think Wushu or karate will the new sport in 2020.
radzfman- Posts : 35
Join date : 2013-01-19
finarashi wrote:
But why modern? pentathlon was not dropped that is the interesting question. High price, no tv, no audience ...
It is the sport of "gentlemen & kings" so there was some Rich European dude who gave a lot of cash to the IOC.
Shindai Warrior- Posts : 14
Join date : 2013-01-21
Location : Toon Town
Wushu has the flash of the Chinese martial arts movie industry and the power of the world's second largest economy behind it. It's only a matter of time.
It has supplanted the role of Judo in movies that peaked with the early James Bond 007 movies in the 1960s to 70s.
Once it's on the list it's dance/performance visual aspect will give it a higher audience number than a grappling sport like judo.
They'd push it to replace Judo if they could, just to make a political point in their longer term campaign to rule the entire area, and their growing disputes with Japan e.i. remote islands.
Some commentators are noting that, once the purview of amateur sports achievement, the Olympics now resembles more of a professional sports entertainment show.
It has supplanted the role of Judo in movies that peaked with the early James Bond 007 movies in the 1960s to 70s.
Once it's on the list it's dance/performance visual aspect will give it a higher audience number than a grappling sport like judo.
They'd push it to replace Judo if they could, just to make a political point in their longer term campaign to rule the entire area, and their growing disputes with Japan e.i. remote islands.
Some commentators are noting that, once the purview of amateur sports achievement, the Olympics now resembles more of a professional sports entertainment show.
Kasrkin- Posts : 6
Join date : 2013-01-25
I'm personally disappointed that Wrestling has been removed, even if the Olympics featured only five sports, for me Wrestling would be one of them. Is it the oldest human sport in history? Quite possibly. It is true though that it is very small in some countries, I'm in the south of England, and when I looked for a Wrestling club last year the closest to me was 80 miles away in London. Compare that to the 3 Judo clubs within 20 miles...
As for its replacement, I believe that Karate is far, far too similiar in appearance to TKD to even be in with a chance. To the average viewer they'd be exactly the same. I'd like Squash to be in, fast paced and fun to watch, and maybe Wushu, even though I'm not a fan of 'flowery fists and embroidery kicks'. Plus, China has a total monopoly on Wushu, and would rule the medals for decades until everyone else caught up (bit like Japan/Judo!) which I don't think is very fair.
As for its replacement, I believe that Karate is far, far too similiar in appearance to TKD to even be in with a chance. To the average viewer they'd be exactly the same. I'd like Squash to be in, fast paced and fun to watch, and maybe Wushu, even though I'm not a fan of 'flowery fists and embroidery kicks'. Plus, China has a total monopoly on Wushu, and would rule the medals for decades until everyone else caught up (bit like Japan/Judo!) which I don't think is very fair.
afulldeck- Posts : 377
Join date : 2012-12-30
Bloody Elbow wrote a nice piece on this decision. The author made the following major points:
a) FILA was asleep at the wheel
b) IOC wanted Greco gone. FILA simply changed the rules
c) IOC decided to pull rank
d) Popularity of wrestling is not in question (TV rating are high, participation is high, country involvement high)
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/2/13/3984038/olympic-wrestling--ioc-fila-fate-2020-summer-games
a) FILA was asleep at the wheel
b) IOC wanted Greco gone. FILA simply changed the rules
c) IOC decided to pull rank
d) Popularity of wrestling is not in question (TV rating are high, participation is high, country involvement high)
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/2/13/3984038/olympic-wrestling--ioc-fila-fate-2020-summer-games
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