This Kashiwazaki video has me confused about what a tomoe nage is

This video of Katsuhiko Kashiwazaki doing what is presented as 'tomoe nage' has me confused. Many of the throws he demonstrates appear to use the instep as a lever on uke's inner thigh, like sumi gaeshi, rather than planting the foot on uke's waist or hip, like a 'classic' tomoe nage. When I asked a more experienced judoka about it, he said that they were indeed all tomoe nage, and that the entry and the pull with the hands are the principally important thing that distinguishes tomoe nage from sumi gaeshi, not just foot placement.

While I knew that the typical entry and pull for those throws is importantly different, the notion that foot placement is a mere bagatelle is kind of a new one on me. Can anyone here help me out?

I can’t comment on whether foot placement is a mere bagatelle in Tomae-nage but that is some mighty fine Judo on display there.

Toptomcat wrote:This video of Katsuhiko Kashiwazaki doing what is presented as 'tomoe nage' has me confused. Many of the throws he demonstrates appear to use the instep as a lever on uke's inner thigh, like sumi gaeshi, rather than planting the foot on uke's waist or hip, like a 'classic' tomoe nage. When I asked a more experienced judoka about it, he said that they were indeed all tomoe nage, and that the entry and the pull with the hands are the principally important thing that distinguishes tomoe nage from sumi gaeshi, not just foot placement.

While I knew that the typical entry and pull for those throws is importantly different, the notion that foot placement is a mere bagatelle is kind of a new one on me. Can anyone here help me out?

Watch it closely again. There were not many foot placement on the inner thigh in the video. Most were placed in and around the hip/lower abdomen area. He is just so quick when he does the throw..Also the judoka you asked were correct. The foot is a secondary measure. the throw should be almost complete by using your hands while sacrificing your body position.Uke should be past the brink of balance before the foot makes contact.
I have a lot of Kashiwazaki videos on tomoenage as it is my tokui waza, but not this one.
Thanks for posting. The man is a genius.

Very nice video, I love the sacrifice throws and especially the transitions into arm bars

This looks like the follow up video:



Very good training technique for the tomoe nage throw, breaks down the steps and shows the foot is not the focus part of the throw.

cheers

I'm trying the flying wombat defense today.

hedgehogey wrote:

I'm trying the flying wombat defense today.

most ridiculous looking thing I've seen all day. with that said I may try that tonight too.

I've seen Matsumura Yochiro (8 dan) do something similar. It's pretty funny and it works--so long as you're great.

genetic judoka wrote:

hedgehogey wrote:

I'm trying the flying wombat defense today.

most ridiculous looking thing I've seen all day. with that said I may try that tonight too.

Despite all the skill HSM for the leg grab!

I don't see any sumi gaeshi in the video, there is no sumi gaeshi 'rolling' action. It is hard to see where the foot is, but the throw is clearly tomoenage to my eyes.

well I tried the counter I said I was gonna try, and it was quite effective, minus the whole HSM thing...