Judo - Healthy?

After 30 years of judo I am now recuperating after knee surgery, my first ever serious injury.

I've just about sprained and strained every part of my body, dislocated the odd toe, suffered concussion, but never broken anything; so no real worries until the knee. Other judoka I train with have similar attitudes. Does that mean we have become too conditioned in accepting such injuries or are we distorting matters out of proportion?

still learning wrote:After 30 years of judo I am now recuperating after knee surgery, my first ever serious injury.

I've just about sprained and strained every part of my body, dislocated the odd toe, suffered concussion, but never broken anything; so no real worries until the knee. Other judoka I train with have similar attitudes. Does that mean we have become too conditioned in accepting such injuries or are we distorting matters out of proportion?

I do think judoka have a different attitude about the difference between an owie, a boo-boo, and an injury. I don't think we all have the same definitions, but I do think our baseline is different from a lot of other athletics. Then again, barring that guy at over 100 who made FB recently as an inspirational meme, who really spends a lifetime training marathon, or swimming, or aerobics or whatever? How many training yoga long term have the Black Knight attitude of, "it's just a flesh wound"?

Is this wrong? Meh, everybody makes their own decisions, and yes, we pay for it later in our lives.

30 years and one knee surgery - pretty awesome. Heal well, heal quickly, and heal completely.

chronicles..

The attitude was when I started that if one broke an arm so long as it is only one don't stop as we have another arm. The 'logic' of this attitude was passed of in terms of self defence. Our sensei would so often say as we lay there crying that we cannot do that when attacked in the street. I was raised not to give into pain, I was raised to fight on, the fight I was told was as much a mental fight as a physical one.
When I inherited a dojo at 16 I swore to change this attitude. I was a very hard teacher that has greatly mellowed over the years. Looking back so much harm was done to me as a child in judo. Like it or not a child's body is not like that of an adults and we should have been treated differently. It was simply not the way things where.

I am not going to list my injuries and health problems the forum would crash. I don't think I have a limb or section of my body that has not been affected by my judo practice. Please note though that for well over twenty years or more I trained judo 8 times a week for three hours per session. Our family vicar informed my parents that judo was my God. Rather peeved me him saying that.

Taiso and ukemi plus strong discipline is needed in all our dojo. Teachers must have their eye on the ball at all times.

I also think we have truly lost the real goal set by us by the founder. Education of the mind and body? The theory is there but can mankind truly practice such lofty goals?

Keep safe and look after each other.

Mike

Gus wrote: Its the elite giys who will really suffer later though - and no I dont think thats what Kano had in mind.

Is it really such a blanket statement tho? I read Resnick talk about his trials and injuries in JF and they are bone-chilling; but then you see guys like Nastula, Akiyama, Omigawa and many others with massive comp experience go on to mma when they can't cut top judo anymore. Elite judo to some might be consistantly pushing the body beyond its limits and to others maybe just heavy randori. If Resnic grew up in Tokyo, he might have had to try not so hard.

On a side note, I think judo is losing a lot of memberships because they read all too much that Judo is so injury prone. I know it can be but to read some stuff posted on other forums about judo and I'd almost think they're trying to scare new members away. Throw in the amount of injuries in standing bjj, no doubt, and its sounds like a law. Every adult can choose in everything he does just how much he wants to push himself and there's plenty of info now that says what is too much.

I've been in judo now for... oh, 9-ish years, and martial arts in general for close to 21.
For "proper" injuries, all I've had is one broken toe, and two broken ribs (I also have a broken collar bone, but that happened during downhill bicycling).
Besides that, I have some kyphosis/lordosis (from my army days, but martial arts probably haven't helped), a couple of fingers stuck in slightly weird positions, and a stiff neck (desk job )

All in all not too bad methinks...

Been doing Judo for 3 years now and really have to say that the overall improvement in my health (strength, endurance, etc.) so far outweigh my injuries (Level 2-3 sprain of my LCL, bruised ribs, sprained toes). I love how judo makes me feel, I love the rush you get from randori, the friendships built on the mat. I hope I can keep fit enough to do this for another 30 years.

Blew out my rt. knee, they thought it needed full recon. But when they got in to check, enough was salvageable without recon. I was told however the next time I won't be so lucky. My left knee needs surgery but I'm to tired and old to do bother with it. Lower back pain was a way of live since my late 20's. When it does act up I simply live on ibuprofen for about 2 weeks. It sure makes sneezing painful.

Yet being able to be at a point where one can flow over the tatami and fluidly slip into a seionage, taiotoshi, or harai effectively makes it worth it. Now, after that being said, the sensible part of me comes to grips with the cost factor. The injuries sustained to get to that effective fluid state may last a lifetime. You will take the injuries and the pain that comes with it wherever you go, 24 -7. I have randori with that thought for much of my judo career. Now, in my late 50's the answer if clear. It was a great ride, I would not have changed a thing. But for now and here on in, I will take from Judo as much as it can give me to maintain my health and keep my thinking clear. You can't beat that and you can't ask for anything more.

My very best to all,

Kurobi

I know a fella who is in his 50's and has been doing judo about 20 years. his knees are destroyed. basically every few months he gets a cortisone injection in both of them, with the knowledge that doing so is pretty bad for them. but as he puts it, his doc says he needs to get them both replaced anyway, but he's waiting til the shots stop working before he does that. I guess the damage done by the crystallization of the cortisone isn't a big deal when you know the entire joints will be replaced eventually. he doesn't really do much randori anymore.

I didn't know you could get knee replacements.

seatea wrote:I didn't know you could get knee replacements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knee_replacement

pretty common these days actually.

yep,,my dad is having 2 done next week.

seatea wrote:I didn't know you could get knee replacements.

They can replace most stuff on your body these days, including your gender. Not saying that with most stuff replaced it would still be the kind of body you (or anyone else for that matter) would want, but it is possible.

tafftaz wrote:yep,,my dad is having 2 done next week.

it could be worse, he could be having 3 done...

Funny guys.
Normally people have one knee done at a time so they can retain some mobility in between ops. But my dad ,typically, went for the two for one option.
Going to be fun running around for him over the next few months.

At 8-9 months in, it feels like my body picks what joint is going to ache. Not to mention my shoulder and the toes on my left foot.

The problem is that a lot of guys are competition oriented so I get thrown hard a fair bit. Learning ukemi has really helped reduce injuries, but man does it hurt.

My sensei was a terror on the mat in his day but now has a messed up leg. Another black belts knees are shot as are a long time brown belts. One former members shoulder dislocates at random. I really don't want to be a crippled old man.

The problem is that Judo is addictive and I enjoy it.

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_entertainment/545383.html

"For gold, Korean judoka ignores life to train to the death"

no death, but he went pretty hard.lol

I know plenty of people who've never stepped on the mat who just rust away, too, so it's always tough to figure out what causes what.  But direct trauma and the aches that come with that are giveaways Something Done Wrong. 

One day a group of German judoka came to our dojo in Tokyo.  In the changing room, one of these nice gents, probably 50ish, with zero English, started pointing out his surgery scars and bent bits and pieces.  
Yoo-do...   yoo-do..... yoo-do.... yoo-do..... as he showed elbowskneesfingerswrist.... 
My impression was that judo injuries were a badge of honor for him, perhaps something to spice up an otherwise safe, middle-class existence.  Who knows.  

One of the wags in the club piped up and said, 'And that, mate, is why I'm not doing going to do randori with you!'

In fact, he seemed near suicidal, would suddenly throw himself at the mat with abandon and no regard for your or his own safety.  He probably hurts every day, and more so as he ages.  Having seen plenty of people banged up and ground up, I'm not interested.  

And I am positive that is not what Kano shihan had in mind, either the practice or the result.

I was trying to upload an image from the dust cover of the Canon of Judo but couldn't get it to work - anyway it shows very clearly some pretty heavy strapping on uke's right wrist. Rather looks like some of the RSI bands people where from time to time. My conclusion is people got injured just as much then as now but probably grumbled less back then.

Or maybe they grumbled just as much but not on Forums?

Last night was my first randori after a six month lay off and as I lay gasping for breath it certainly seemed to be the case that judo does you more good than bad.

I think that within the confines of your genetics it is possible to conscientiously pursue a proactive injury prevention policy. I think we often don't do this enough. As a therapist, my weekly paycheck is quite grateful for stubborn old farts like Hanon who beat themselves up!

As a personal example, after a back injury at work years ago I devoted a lot of time and effort to building strength in my back and hips via deadlifts. It has helped every aspect of my life, everything from judo/bjj to work to picking up my kids to...uhm...marital occupations.
In short, yay for strong hips.

Other than two major sprains I've been fortunate not to have many injuries. Most everything is stronger than it was before I began. The key is to train smart and not over-train. Which is easier to do when you aren't a professional judoka. IMO Judo should be safe but only when a competent sensei is there and who also knows how to run a dojo. The sprains I've had were from stupidity and bad technique.