EJU Kata Championships 2013 (Malta)

I am pleased to announce that our forum colleague, wdax and his partner have obtained the gold medal during the 2013 European Judo Kata Championships in Malta. Let's all congratulate wdax for his sustained efforts and commitment.

Here are the full results:

Nage-no-kata

1) Jean Philippe Gillon-Nicolas Gillon (BEL)
2) Iulian Surla-Aurelian Ciprian Fleisz (ROU)
3) Raul Camacho-Roberto Camacho (ESP)

Katame-no-kata

1) Andrea Fregnan-Stefano Moregola (ITA)
2) Daniel Requena-Alfredo Medrano (ESP)
3) Juan P. Goicoechandia-Roberto Villar (ESP)

Kime-no-kata

1) Dirk de Maerteleire-Christophe Inghelbrecht (BEL)
2) Fernando Blas-U Chan Chung (ESP)
3) Stephane Bega-Gregory Marques (FRA)

Jû-no-kata

1) Wolfgang Dax Romswinkel-Ulla Loosen (GER)
2) Emmanuel Wirtz-Armelle Voindrot (FRA)
3) Manuel Garcia Pizarro-Vicente Picazo Amor (ESP)

Kôdôkan Goshinjutsu

1) Ubaldo Volpi-Maurizio Calderini (ITA)
2) Elena Cazzola-Alessandro Gavin (ITA)
3) Enzo Calà-Fabio Polo (ITA)

European Cup Koshiki-no-kata:

1) Gavino Piredda-Monica Piredda (ITA)
2) Stefano Proietti-Alessandro Varazi (ITA)
3) (GER)

Judo Show:

1) NED
2) BEL
3) ITA (Lapel, Bucer, Bucer, Furchì)

I note a somewhat strange development in kata-championships with there being almost more competitors present than audience.

There are ample pictures available here:

http://www.eju.net/media/?mode=showEvent&id=1545

Cichorei Kano wrote:European Cup Koshiki-no-kata:

1) Gavino Piredda-Monica Piredda (ITA)
2) Stefano Proietti-Alessandro Varazi (ITA)
3) (GER)

The names of the Germans who won the bronze medal are:

Michael Hoffmann + Dieter Münnekhoff


@CK: Thank you for posting the results!

And congratulations to all medalists!

Cichorei Kano wrote:I am pleased to announce that our forum colleague, wdax and his partner have obtained the gold medal during the 2013 European Judo Kata Championships in Malta. Let's all congratulate wdax for his sustained efforts and commitment.

Here are the full results:

Nage-no-kata

1) Jean Philippe Gillon-Nicolas Gillon (BEL)
2) Iulian Surla-Aurelian Ciprian Fleisz (ROU)
3) Raul Camacho-Roberto Camacho (ESP)

Katame-no-kata

1) Andrea Fregnan-Stefano Moregola (ITA)
2) Daniel Requena-Alfredo Medrano (ESP)
3) Juan P. Goicoechandia-Roberto Villar (ESP)

Kime-no-kata

1) Dirk de Maerteleire-Christophe Inghelbrecht (BEL)
2) Fernando Blas-U Chan Chung (ESP)
3) Stephane Bega-Gregory Marques (FRA)

Jû-no-kata

1) Wolfgang Dax Romswinkel-Ulla Loosen (GER)
2) Emmanuel Wirtz-Armelle Voindrot (FRA)
3) Manuel Garcia Pizarro-Vicente Picazo Amor (ESP)

Kôdôkan Goshinjutsu

1) Ubaldo Volpi-Maurizio Calderini (ITA)
2) Elena Cazzola-Alessandro Gavin (ITA)
3) Enzo Calà-Fabio Polo (ITA)

European Cup Koshiki-no-kata:

1) Gavino Piredda-Monica Piredda (ITA)
2) Stefano Proietti-Alessandro Varazi (ITA)
3) (GER)

Judo Show:

1) NED
2) BEL
3) ITA (Lapel, Bucer, Bucer, Furchì)

I note a somewhat strange development in kata-championships with there being almost more competitors present than audience.

There are ample pictures available here:

http://www.eju.net/media/?mode=showEvent&id=1545

What do you mean by "Judo show"?

GREAT news to learn Of WDax sensei and partner doing so brilliantly .

Regards,

Mike

Hanon wrote:

What do you mean by "Judo show"?

GREAT news to learn Of WDax sensei and partner doing so brilliantly .

Regards,

Mike

EJU and IJF have kata competitions in the following kata categories in which they hold competitions:

NNK
KNK
JNK
KimeNK
KDK Goshinjutsu
Judo Show

In Judo Show the demonstrators, usually multiple teams at the same time demonstrate things they made themselves, mostly mainly gearing towards the spectacular and acrobatic and put on music. Apparently in the wisdom of the EJU/IJF something is kata from the moment you demonstrate it to an audience.

Here's an example of JudoShow:



So you can become a European Champion, or bettter, they now for this part no longer issue the title of "European Champion", but of "winners of the European Cup in Judo Show". In some European countries there are already being special judo clinics organized in Judo Show, just like you would have a judo clinic in kime-no-kata. Yes, you're awake and not dreaming.

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Hanon wrote:

What do you mean by "Judo show"?

GREAT news to learn Of WDax sensei and partner doing so brilliantly .

Regards,

Mike

EJU and IJF have kata competitions in the following kata categories in which they hold competitions:

NNK
KNK
JNK
KimeNK
KDK Goshinjutsu
Judo Show

In Judo Show the demonstrators, usually multiple teams at the same time demonstrate things they made themselves, mostly mainly gearing towards the spectacular and acrobatic and put on music. Apparently in the wisdom of the EJU/IJF something is kata from the moment you demonstrate it to an audience.

Here's an example of JudoShow:



So you can become a European Champion, or bettter, they now for this part no longer issue the title of "European Champion", but of "winners of the European Cup in Judo Show". In some European countries there are already being special judo clinics organized in Judo Show, just like you would have a judo clinic in kime-no-kata. Yes, you're awake and not dreaming.

Yes I am awake but even if I am not dreaming I must be living in a judo bubble! WHEN did this .....thing...start? Hang on before I start to blast away let me gather some facts and history.

This is not called a kata right?

This is a demonstration as in garden fete demonstration, its a bit of fun right?

You don't literally medal in this judo show right?

I am all for judo moving on, taking into account the times and society values etc. No I need to stop and clarify where we are at here.

Not another word until you reply.

Mike

Hanon wrote:

Yes I am awake but even if I am not dreaming I must be living in a judo bubble! WHEN did this .....thing...start? Hang on before I start to blast away let me gather some facts and history.

This is not called a kata right?

This is a demonstration as in garden fete demonstration, its a bit of fun right?

You don't literally medal in this judo show right?

I am all for judo moving on, taking into account the times and society values etc. No I need to stop and clarify where we are at here.

Not another word until you reply.

Mike

Originally, the EJU had only 5 kata in which they held championships, the first five kata.

Then the most advanced ranks involved in the kata committee thought about including Itsutsu-no-kata and Koshiki-no-kata. But, there was a bit of a problem, namely that they knew very well that even if they could replicate the mechanics they really did not know what these kata were about or what their significance is. This is not me blasting others, they will admit to this themselves. So to be on the save side, they tried to combine the first organization of a European Championship in this kata with a visit to the country of Daigo-sensei. Since it would be odd for the EJU to let Daigo-sensei just decide everything by himself, particularly since he could only extensively explain his arguments in Japanese, they had to involve the most senior EJU judges even though they would not be able to apply the same criteria as Daigo-sensei for the simple reason that they do not have Daigo-sensei's background and knowledge. For example, not a single person in the EJU Kata Committee with the exception of the now ill Sugiyama-sensei speaks or reads any Japanese. The EJU Committee also finally understood that the level at which most Westerners 'comprehend' INK and KoshikiNK is not at the same level as for the other kata, and it would be somewhat odd for someone to be a "European Champion in X", when most Japanese would frown or immediately notice the knowledge and skill in X is not anywhere near what it is for the more standard kata. For this reason they came up with the alternative to not organize and attribute the title "European Champion" in these two kata.

When they were introduced, which I believe was at the EC 2010 in Pordenone Italy, they were in a separate category called "Kata Demonstration". Rather than points, they would receive predicates such as 'good', 'very good'. It still was very odd, as there was at least one team I knew very well and had worked with them on nage-no-kata, who were relative novices, ha no understanding of these higher kata (and would also graciously admit to that) yet would 'score' among the best, illustrating the whole thing was mostly a lottery.

Since this year (or was it last year) they have changed the designation again and replaced "Kata Demonstration" (for Koshiki-no-kata)with that "European Cup in X". INK was completely removed. The thinking, I guess, is that there is a less of a problem when, the performance is just mediocre but still the best among others, to be chosen winner than be chosen something that suggests that you are the European Champion or the "Single best of Europe in it". Mind that the first time "world championships kata" were organized, they were also not called "world championships", but "IJF World cup". It could mean that the EJU starting next year might add Koshiki to the other series and make it a full European Championship in Koshiki NK. I hope not though. It would not be a good idea.

With regard to the 'kata' called "Judo Show" (which thus is a 'kata' [according to the EJU] that is different for everyone]) this was introduced during the 2008 European Kata Championships held in Malta. France became the first European Champion in "Kata Show" with Italy winning Silver, and a different French team winning bronze.

Um ... yes, you do actually medal in "Judo Show"

So judo show kata has been around since 2008 and this is the first I have heard of it? I feel like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed on manure.

WHO thought up the idea of this judo show thing? Why would judo have such a thing? Shall we have a competition in seeing who can make the prettiest pattern from laying tatami?

I have written before I actually like seeing seeing show judo type routines at money raisers etc AFTER the judo exhibition has ended and after the end reigi.

So we have judoka in dojo all over the world practicing to medal in a judo show event? One word. Absurd.

Can you imagine what the other budo and bugei will make of this and yes it may even effect the decision of the IOC to continue placing judo on the calendar. In what other 'sport' do you see such a thing. An EJU medal in judo for show judo.
I need to go and lie down. hang on I already am laying down!

No wonder judo is on the way out. sooner the better then we can reinvent the wheel and start over again. Simply zero appreciation for what judo is. Can you imagine what our sensei would have said had they walked into a dojo and seen that?
Lord have mercy!

Mike

Hanon wrote:So judo show kata has been around since 2008 and this is the first I have heard of it? I feel like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed on manure.

Lord have mercy!

Mike

I have written a few posts about it before; not many though. I remember though on the old forum posting an announcement for a "Judo Show clinic".

It might have been when you were on sabbatical though.

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Hanon wrote:So judo show kata has been around since 2008 and this is the first I have heard of it? I feel like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed on manure.

Lord have mercy!

Mike

I have written a few posts about it before; not many though. I remember though on the old forum posting an announcement for a "Judo Show clinic".

It might have been when you were on sabbatical though.

The matter was discussed in this thread- https://judo.forumotion.com/t723-and-then-now-for-something-completely-different-the-judo-show

Quicksilver wrote:
The matter was discussed in this thread- https://judo.forumotion.com/t723-and-then-now-for-something-completely-different-the-judo-show

I think that Hanon-sensei participated in that thread, but he may not have fully realized that one could actually become a European Champion or World champion in such an event.

I think chances are Hanon-sensei may also not be aware that there exist actual world championships playing air guitar too ...

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Quicksilver wrote:
The matter was discussed in this thread- https://judo.forumotion.com/t723-and-then-now-for-something-completely-different-the-judo-show

I think that Hanon-sensei participated in that thread, but he may not have fully realized that one could actually become a European Champion or World champion in such an event.

I think chances are Hanon-sensei may also not be aware that there exist actual world championships playing air guitar too ...

That was... not expected. How it work? Like lipsyncing but with guitars?

Quicksilver wrote:

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Quicksilver wrote:
The matter was discussed in this thread- https://judo.forumotion.com/t723-and-then-now-for-something-completely-different-the-judo-show

I think that Hanon-sensei participated in that thread, but he may not have fully realized that one could actually become a European Champion or World champion in such an event.

I think chances are Hanon-sensei may also not be aware that there exist actual world championships playing air guitar too ...

That was... not expected. How it work? Like lipsyncing but with guitars?

Here's a videoclip from the 2012 World Championships Air Guitar:



It's actually quite similar to "Judo Show".

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Quicksilver wrote:

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Quicksilver wrote:
The matter was discussed in this thread- https://judo.forumotion.com/t723-and-then-now-for-something-completely-different-the-judo-show

I think that Hanon-sensei participated in that thread, but he may not have fully realized that one could actually become a European Champion or World champion in such an event.

I think chances are Hanon-sensei may also not be aware that there exist actual world championships playing air guitar too ...

That was... not expected. How it work? Like lipsyncing but with guitars?

Here's a videoclip from the 2012 World Championships Air Guitar:



It's actually quite similar to "Judo Show".

Without the guitar it looks like he is performing another activity not generally practiced in public.

With relation to 'judo show' I had no idea when participating in that thread that this was in ANY way shape or form something to 'related' to actually judo. I was under the impression that the club clip I saw (remember I only watched clip one) Was something in a private club and to be seen as something along the lines of a bit of fun, entertainment if you will for some sort of display.
It beggars all belief that this sort of show would be connected to 'real' judo practice.

Over the years how often do we read that pupils cant find a judo club near them or don't have the time to practice as their club is only open 2 hours per week? How often have we read that pupils just cant find enough judo time due to shortness of dojo opening hours that they cannot practice uchikomi, nage kmi, randori, ukemi, kata etc? NOW we see this judo show thing? I cant yet get my head around this? So I take it that pupils are obviously now eating into precious judo time to learn then practice judo show?
Are we going to see judo show dojo now like we see shiai dojo or like the dojo I came across a couple of years ago that was a 'kata judo club'?

WHO came up with this and why? How can such a thing be justified? I thought I had seen it all, apparently not, not even close. And people worry about less activity on a judo forum? I am now even more worried about judo period!

Like a nightmare.
I need to return to that thread and make an addendum to my post.

Mike

So I take it that this thread is no longer about congratulating Wdax on his exceptional accomplishment, and instead is now another bash away thread. Why not start a separate thread where you two can howl at the moon, and leave this to sending best wishes to W?

Congrats Wolfgang - well deserved.

Lurker wrote:So I take it that this thread is no longer about congratulating Wdax on his exceptional accomplishment, and instead is now another bash away thread. Why not start a separate thread where you two can howl at the moon, and leave this to sending best wishes to W?

Congrats Wolfgang - well deserved.

Unless I am yet again mistaken a forum is a place to debate or "Bash away" as you describe it. I don't think it fair for you to re join and again try to stifle posts with your hidden agendas. We have all congratulated WDax sensei on his excellent accomplishment and the thread did what many do they diversify.

Have you anything constructive to add?

Mike

I don't think it fair for you to re join and again try to stifle posts with your hidden agendas.

Mike[/quote]

Lurker wrote:
I don't think it fair for you to re join and again try to stifle posts with your hidden agendas.

Mike

[/quote]

Come on behave yourself.

How are you and yours?

Best wishes,

Mike

Hanon wrote:

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Quicksilver wrote:

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Quicksilver wrote:
The matter was discussed in this thread- https://judo.forumotion.com/t723-and-then-now-for-something-completely-different-the-judo-show

I think that Hanon-sensei participated in that thread, but he may not have fully realized that one could actually become a European Champion or World champion in such an event.

I think chances are Hanon-sensei may also not be aware that there exist actual world championships playing air guitar too ...

That was... not expected. How it work? Like lipsyncing but with guitars?

Here's a videoclip from the 2012 World Championships Air Guitar:



It's actually quite similar to "Judo Show".

Without the guitar it looks like he is performing another activity not generally practiced in public.

With relation to 'judo show' I had no idea when participating in that thread that this was in ANY way shape or form something to 'related' to actually judo. I was under the impression that the club clip I saw (remember I only watched clip one) Was something in a private club and to be seen as something along the lines of a bit of fun, entertainment if you will for some sort of display.
It beggars all belief that this sort of show would be connected to 'real' judo practice.

Over the years how often do we read that pupils cant find a judo club near them or don't have the time to practice as their club is only open 2 hours per week? How often have we read that pupils just cant find enough judo time due to shortness of dojo opening hours that they cannot practice uchikomi, nage kmi, randori, ukemi, kata etc? NOW we see this judo show thing? I cant yet get my head around this? So I take it that pupils are obviously now eating into precious judo time to learn then practice judo show?
Are we going to see judo show dojo now like we see shiai dojo or like the dojo I came across a couple of years ago that was a 'kata judo club'?

WHO came up with this and why? How can such a thing be justified? I thought I had seen it all, apparently not, not even close. And people worry about less activity on a judo forum? I am now even more worried about judo period!

Like a nightmare.
I need to return to that thread and make an addendum to my post.

Mike

I can sundertand thbeing upset with the "championshiop" aspect and callign it some sort of kata. Hwoever, If the "show" involves actual Judo, then I'm don't really have any problems with it. Maybe as an exhibition of skill and athleticism it's OK. However, for it to be artistic it's going to need a lot of work.

Ben Reinhardt wrote:

Hanon wrote:

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Quicksilver wrote:

Cichorei Kano wrote:

Quicksilver wrote:
The matter was discussed in this thread- https://judo.forumotion.com/t723-and-then-now-for-something-completely-different-the-judo-show

I think that Hanon-sensei participated in that thread, but he may not have fully realized that one could actually become a European Champion or World champion in such an event.

I think chances are Hanon-sensei may also not be aware that there exist actual world championships playing air guitar too ...

That was... not expected. How it work? Like lipsyncing but with guitars?

Here's a videoclip from the 2012 World Championships Air Guitar:



It's actually quite similar to "Judo Show".

Without the guitar it looks like he is performing another activity not generally practiced in public.

With relation to 'judo show' I had no idea when participating in that thread that this was in ANY way shape or form something to 'related' to actually judo. I was under the impression that the club clip I saw (remember I only watched clip one) Was something in a private club and to be seen as something along the lines of a bit of fun, entertainment if you will for some sort of display.
It beggars all belief that this sort of show would be connected to 'real' judo practice.

Over the years how often do we read that pupils cant find a judo club near them or don't have the time to practice as their club is only open 2 hours per week? How often have we read that pupils just cant find enough judo time due to shortness of dojo opening hours that they cannot practice uchikomi, nage kmi, randori, ukemi, kata etc? NOW we see this judo show thing? I cant yet get my head around this? So I take it that pupils are obviously now eating into precious judo time to learn then practice judo show?
Are we going to see judo show dojo now like we see shiai dojo or like the dojo I came across a couple of years ago that was a 'kata judo club'?

WHO came up with this and why? How can such a thing be justified? I thought I had seen it all, apparently not, not even close. And people worry about less activity on a judo forum? I am now even more worried about judo period!

Like a nightmare.
I need to return to that thread and make an addendum to my post.

Mike

I can sundertand thbeing upset with the "championshiop" aspect and callign it some sort of kata. Hwoever, If the "show" involves actual Judo, then I'm don't really have any problems with it. Maybe as an exhibition of skill and athleticism it's OK. However, for it to be artistic it's going to need a lot of work.

Ben when does judo cross the line and become something else?

I have zero problem with fund raisers where we give a display and show things not normally practiced but that is in its place at the right time.

Here we are talking Kodokan kata on the same day, same dojo, same judges making judo show and medaling in it?

You have correctly written in another post that the IJF is an entertainment group there to make money just as Sony entertainment are. I agree. Thing is judoka are participating in this judo show and judo taiso circus? Is that going to build judo or further erode it?

Are we going to live to see ball judo or swimming judo? sounds absurd BUT where do we draw the line?

What is so wrong with kodokan judo that we need to change it?

Make no mistake these developments are not about the interests of judo. You know where they come from and why.

I guess we are being geared to abandon judo waza like Morote gri et al for this stuff? No words for it really.

Best Wishes Ben,

Mike