I want you to make fun of my osoto guruma

in the video I was doing osoto guruma (or at least trying to), and my partner was doing osoto gari.

my uke is my same weight, but as you can see somewhat shorter than me. hey, I'll take what I can get. I had to modify my throw a bit to make up for the height difference, but that's no excuse if I'm doing something way wrong.

I'm posting this because I want to know where I can improve. and I have pretty thick skin, so don't hold back, I can take the criticism. if you've got advice for my partner I'll pass that along as well. my specific goal in doing these throws, since we were doing it with the minimum resistance possible without jumping, was to do it with the bare minimum amount of muscle possible.

I tried to play with the slow motion stuff as well, frankly I did that just because I think it looks kinda cool.



thanks.

I was taught that certain throws suit certain people and situations best. O soto guruma is usually more suited to a partner who has his feet closer together.

genetic judoka wrote:in the video I was doing osoto guruma (or at least trying to), and my partner was doing osoto gari.

my uke is my same weight, but as you can see somewhat shorter than me. hey, I'll take what I can get. I had to modify my throw a bit to make up for the height difference, but that's no excuse if I'm doing something way wrong.

I'm posting this because I want to know where I can improve. and I have pretty thick skin, so don't hold back, I can take the criticism. if you've got advice for my partner I'll pass that along as well. my specific goal in doing these throws, since we were doing it with the minimum resistance possible without jumping, was to do it with the bare minimum amount of muscle possible.

I tried to play with the slow motion stuff as well, frankly I did that just because I think it looks kinda cool.



thanks.

Both of you simply must control your heads. Tori must control the head of uke when throwing then tori must, after completion of the kake phase, keep his head up, Each time either of you throw both of you nearly fall over. Bend your knees and get you head upright.

Your oguguma (lol, I mean osotoguruma) lacks a tad in the kuruma stage, but one or two where near. I think you may be using a tad to much hip? Wheel your uke around your leg AT HIP LEVEL. This is hell to explain but so easy to demo'

When you begin your initial action by moving in with your Left leg keep your toes on the floor and slide. When in place your toes must bit into the tatami for grip.

Oh, point the toes on your action leg. Keep that leg straight too don't bend it at the knee. Do bend your supporting leg when you attack.

Both your ukemi as not well executed.
Such clips are an invaluable source for debate thank you both very much for posting. Well done.


Mike

I'm confused, the video was of osoto guruma, not o guruma. but I do indeed have a bad habit of not pointing my toes. does the throw being osoto guruma and not o guruma change anything about the comment about using too much hip? not arguing just looking for clarification.

and yes, osoto guruma is better suited to people with their feet closer together.

I neglected to mention that these throws were being done while our eyes were closed. not sure if that has any effect on the quality of the techniques, but thought it was worth mentioning.

and some of the falls weren't as nice as I'd like them to have been, but were all of them bad? most of them were quite comfortable. can you give more specifics as to what I was doing wrong? again the point of posting this video is to learn, which is why I ask for clarification.

and in regards to keeping my head up, yes, I agree that is an issue. what can be done to alleviate this when uke clings onto my gi as they fall, dragging me downward?

genetic judoka wrote:I'm confused, the video was of osoto guruma, not o guruma. but I do indeed have a bad habit of not pointing my toes. does the throw being osoto guruma and not o guruma change anything about the comment about using too much hip? not arguing just looking for clarification.

and yes, osoto guruma is better suited to people with their feet closer together.

I neglected to mention that these throws were being done while our eyes were closed. not sure if that has any effect on the quality of the techniques, but thought it was worth mentioning.

and some of the falls weren't as nice as I'd like them to have been, but were all of them bad? most of them were quite comfortable. can you give more specifics as to what I was doing wrong? again the point of posting this video is to learn, which is why I ask for clarification.

and in regards to keeping my head up, yes, I agree that is an issue. what can be done to alleviate this when uke clings onto my gi as they fall, dragging me downward?

LOLOLOL.

I just invented a new technique oguguma.......I did mean osotoguruma....

The reason your uke may pull you down is he fears being thrown due to being insecure with his ukemi. I mentioned this.

One thing you can do if your uke pulls you down is juji gatame every time he does that. The most important aspect for your uke would be to practice correct ukemi though. Big chaps both you and your partner must make a big ukemi, you have a lot of weight and force to dissipate in your break fall.

Again no matter how far your uke tries to pull you down you should still negate this pull by bending your legs and keeping your head up looking at the wall not the floor.

Try also a variety of entries for these waza.

You are certainly going down the right road though, so keep training these waza. can you demo your o soto gari some time?

Did I mention your head and the head of uke when you attack. As tori you must control ukes head and have his head tilted back.

Again it is very good of you to post these clips.

Mike

Hey dude,

You are IMO doing a Hip Wheel throw. It's the hip clash that is making him fall. By not moving him off centre you are replacing his hips with yours and causing the fall. The mechanics will work for the throw when you are moving. Your partner is doing more of an O-Soto Gari throw. I think if you had less hip and more off balancing.

Your throw looks like these:





As opposed to this:




Real subtle difference but it is apparent, I think it's in the balance breaking bit.

Don't ask me to post a better version I can't!!! I have the same issue with this throw.

The slow mo looks cool

so I realize that in my haste to reply, I missed something big. if my osoto guruma is lacking in the guruma department, then I'm screwing something up big time. after all it's half the name of the throw! you said a few came close, I know it's a lot to ask but can you rewatch the video and tell me which of the attempts were the closest to being correct? that information may prove useful if I can recall how those felt.

I did a few "regular" osoto gari on video, but I haven't gotten around to watching the video yet unfortunately, much less editing it down to be short enough to be watchable.

also for clarity, I know some of the ones I posted sucked worse than others, I deliberately posted those, because if I'm looking to improve instead of show off, I need advice on the bad ones, not just the good ones.

Ricebale wrote:Hey dude,

You are IMO doing a Hip Wheel throw. It's the hip clash that is making him fall. By not moving him off centre you are replacing his hips with yours and causing the fall. The mechanics will work for the throw when you are moving. Your partner is doing more of an O-Soto Gari throw. I think if you had less hip and more off balancing.

Your throw looks like these:





As opposed to this:




Real subtle difference but it is apparent, I think it's in the balance breaking bit.

Don't ask me to post a better version I can't!!! I have the same issue with this throw.

The slow mo looks cool

love that mifune gif. frankly I wish people would try uki otoshi more often, as now I know a good counter for it. I've been accused of doing a rear harai goshi instead of osoto guruma before. it's funny to hear it again.

I liked the slow mo to. the last throws I actually broke into 3 separate speeds, full speed kuzushi, half speed tsukuri, and quarter speed kake. too much time on my hands, I guess...

genetic judoka wrote:in the video I was doing osoto guruma (or at least trying to), and my partner was doing osoto gari.

my uke is my same weight, but as you can see somewhat shorter than me. hey, I'll take what I can get. I had to modify my throw a bit to make up for the height difference, but that's no excuse if I'm doing something way wrong.

I'm posting this because I want to know where I can improve. and I have pretty thick skin, so don't hold back, I can take the criticism. if you've got advice for my partner I'll pass that along as well. my specific goal in doing these throws, since we were doing it with the minimum resistance possible without jumping, was to do it with the bare minimum amount of muscle possible.

I tried to play with the slow motion stuff as well, frankly I did that just because I think it looks kinda cool.



thanks.

Jason,

I'll kind of reiterate what Hanon wrote, maybe a little different emphasis though.

The Osoto Guruma you are doing is to me a borderline Osoto Gari, sometimes what I would all a Nidan Osoto Gari (cutting both legs). At times you are appear to be reaping (sometimes an abbreviated reap) rather than "wheeling" uke over you outstretched leg.

I've been told one can do Harai Goshi to uke rear. I'll let Hanon et al comment on that.

So you end up doing to my eye some sort of hybrid throw. I personally find the balance for both O Guruma and Osoto Guruma difficult to do, but admittedly I practice neither very often.

Related to the balance issues, though, you don't have to look down at uke when you finish the throw. Both you and your partner keep kind of hunching up you shoulders and looking back at uke in an apparent effort to maintain control and exhibit "zanshin".

You need to keep your head up instead of looking down. To adjust to uke fall (to of course help him take a nicer fall), use your legs more and you can adjust your final pull up with a more erect posture.

Especially in the O Soto Gari, I would have uke work on following through more, maintaining his balance on one leg as uke falls rather than trying to recover to both feet right away. Tori body can make a nice stretched out shape, with his head turned. There is a place of dynamic tension between uke and tori (tori using the twist of his body in conjunction with the control of hikite and tsurite) where tori can find his balance and control uke properly as well.

Here is a video of Y. Yamashita that gives an idea of what I'm talking about.

https://youtu.be/wmTSN0KlpNw



Nice video, thanks for sharing,

Ben

genetic judoka wrote:so I realize that in my haste to reply, I missed something big. if my osoto guruma is lacking in the guruma department, then I'm screwing something up big time. after all it's half the name of the throw! you said a few came close, I know it's a lot to ask but can you rewatch the video and tell me which of the attempts were the closest to being correct? that information may prove useful if I can recall how those felt.

I did a few "regular" osoto gari on video, but I haven't gotten around to watching the video yet unfortunately, much less editing it down to be short enough to be watchable.

also for clarity, I know some of the ones I posted sucked worse than others, I deliberately posted those, because if I'm looking to improve instead of show off, I need advice on the bad ones, not just the good ones.

Osoto Guruma is an ashi waza. If you are throwing uke over your hip, then it's not an ashi waza, right?

Here is an old video that shows best of a lot I looked at. The Kodokan video isn't that good.
https://youtu.be/9eQcQQTYdi4




You'll need to adjust your angles and distance, and work on your balance to get it exactly right, I think. I'll work on it some in practice tonight and see if I can get any personal insight to share.

Ben

Thanks Ben, great stuff there. a lot to think about. I'll try to edit my more recent videos tonight to see what I can come up with.

I always love watching Yamashita, he reminds me how much further the road ahead is, compared to the road behind.

genetic judoka wrote:Thanks Ben, great stuff there. a lot to think about. I'll try to edit my more recent videos tonight to see what I can come up with.

I always love watching Yamashita, he reminds me how much further the road ahead is, compared to the road behind.

After watching the "hara" video posted of Mr. Tsunoda, and thinking of my experience with Osoto Guruma and O Guruma, I think there are fairly complex and subtle things going on with tori balance and center, and how both throws are pretty specialized in terms of debana..especially as I think about and visualize doing either throw.

There is a reason neither is an important in shiai or randori, compared to perhaps more direct techniques.

Ben