I must take serious exception to your Post.
You state that JJ practioners don't do "randori". I can only conclude that by "randori" you mean the same as "Judo randori". Now since any JJ style is different from Judo (one must remember that Judo was derived from JJ styles, and that Kano took out all of the inherent "dangerous" techniques so that his Judo could be a "competitive sport" as opposed to a "real life" JJ style which was part of the Samurai combat fighting arts. i.e. to kill, cripple, and maim an opponent. This is not the objective of Judo nor Judo randori. However, JJ styles are for "Real life", perhaps even life and death, self defense, and preservation of ones own life, not for "competitive sport" as is Judo. Therefore your argument is illusory and without merit. I'm searching for an analogy, but not coming up with one.
So, the reason that JJ style do not partake in Judo like "randori" is because the risk of serious injury is too great. That is solely reserved for when someone actually attacks them in "real life". Further, in JJ Styles there are no "Rules". Judo is packed full of "Rules" because it is a "competitive sport" intended to be competed in shiai/tournaments with referees. It is also a martial art for self defense. If a Judo expert were to engage in a "Real life" fight with an attacker who has no fighting training, then the way it would go and the results would be far different than if he were to engage another Judo expert in randori or shiai.
Similarly, JJ Style are for defending oneself against attackers in "real life" who most likely are not trained fighters. So, similarly, the results would be far different than if the JJ practitioner were to engage in some form of "randori" with a fellow skilled JJ practitioner. If 2 JJ practitioners were to go "all out" in some form of "randori", then the chances are that one or both would sustain serious or even permanent injury. That is the reason for all the "Rules" in Judo, now isn't it? Yes it is!!! JJ styles have no such established "rules" for any such "randori". Because they don't do it, and that's why they don't do it. "rules" inhibit ones ability to defend oneself in a "Real life" situation. Similar to how Boxers are handicapped when attacked in a "real life" situation. Against more than one attacker, a Boxer is in big trouble. If he is tackled to the ground, he is in trouble. If he is up against a kicker, he is in trouble. Why? because he has spent his whole life training in boxing, with gloves on, with "rules". Therefore, when in a "real life" situation he relies upon his training, therefore he relies upon the "rules" of Boxing, which are numerous. I have seen a Professional Boxer taken out with one shot by a spin around back fist!!! Why? Cuz he has never seen it before!! It's against Boxing "rules".
For you to state, and desire JJ practioners to engage in some form of "randori" in order to prove to YOU their mettle might be analogous to you require Samurai Swordsman to engage in "randori" using real razor sharp swords!!! The results would be serous injury, amputation, or death!!! To what end? What purpose would that serve? Similarly, what purpose would it serve for YOU or anyone for JJ practioners to engage in "randori" and then have broken wrists, elbows, fingers, knees, etc? To give you a "kick"? What good would it be for anyone if Judo practioners engaged in "randori" with NO RULES!!! Just do what you want? How many destroyed knees would there be? How many crippled Judokas would there be? The premise of your Post is ridiculous, illogical, ignorant, and absurd.
Inside of criticizing about something that you know nothing about, why don't you go and study some JJ style.? Then after awhile, ask your instructor to engage in "randori" with you. Then see how intelligent, knowledgeable, tough, and immortal you are.........after your wrist is broken, your fingers are broken, your knee is broken, your nose is broken, your jaw is broken, and your eating your meals out of a straw.
Why is it that you people are never critical of Boxing? Why are you never demanding that Boxers fight eachother without gloves on, without hands taped, without those huge groin and kidney protectors, without referees, without rules? Just go at in Bare knuckled.!!! No ring, no rounds!! Why not? What would the result be? Broken hands, broken jaws, death? That is why Boxing has "rules". That is why Judo has "rules". JJ Styles have no "Rules" because it is not a "competitive sport". Why can't you people get this simple concept? The only "rule" JJ style have, in the dojo, is don't injury someone. In the "real world" there are no "rules". Only those of Society to which we all are accustomed.
You talk about something that you know nothing about. You have no idea how truly "nasty" and violent many JJ styles, techniques, and practioners can be. When they decide to be serious, they can be very serious. They have no interest in competition, showing off, points, tournaments, rules, trophies, medals, or being judge. There only interest is in staying alive, and controlling and diffusing the situation as best they can. As is said, the best defense against a knife attack is to run away!! There is no "Randori" there, now is there?
So your argument is completely without merit and is totally incompetent.
In JJ, there is a very "fine line" between executing a technique in a safe and controlled manner, versus inflicting serious injury. Often the difference is a fraction of an inch, a fraction of a second, or just a little too much exuberance, pressure, or power. I remember onetime when I was starting in JJ, I was uke for a guy being tested for a belt. He was doing a technique, got too exuberant, and tore up my elbow. Unintentionally. You have that happen one or more times, and you may be crippled for life. People have to work, or to school, walk, write, raise a family. So they can't risk being crippled for life. This is why in JJ Styles you don't see them engaging in any full power "randori". Why don't you learn, studied, observe, and gain insight and understanding, instead of making ignorant Postings.?
By your use of terms such as "compliance" and "resistance" and "resisting opponent", I can only conclude that you are a BJJ/MMA/Judo practitioner. i.e. again with "rules". You stated that you had studied some JJ style, but failed to say what or where. Am I to conclude that you are in England? Since that seems to be where most of you are, that make these sort of Posts. As for a "non-compliant" or "resistenting" opponent, as you put it, that is actually quite irrelevant. He can resist all he wants. All that means is that he is going to get hurt or seriously injured. You stated that you had "street fighters" come into your JJ dojo off the street. Did you not "resist" them? What was the result to you? Did they not hurt you, cause you pain? Were you not then "compliant"? A "resisting" opponent is quite easily made "compliant" by simple causing him shock or pain, in any number of ways to any number of points on his body. A two finger poke to the eyes, a Leopard's Paw to the front of the throat, a shuto strike to the ceratoid process, a ridgehand to the base of the skull, a instep kick to the groin, a shot to the solar plexus, control of the tricep tendon, an upper palm strike to the chin, grabbing the back of his hair (if he has any of course, if not then grab his ear) and twisting his head (risk of breaking his neck, paralysis or death here), etc, etc, etc, etc. There are hundreds of ways, and hundreds of points on the human body to which you can cause intense pain with a single strike or application of pressure. By which your magnificent "resisting opponent" will no longer be "resisting" as he is stunned. He will be "compliant" as you put it. Then you apply a JJ technique, and lock him out and put him down. Which does not necessarily involve a "throw".
So let me put it in terms you can understand. You and I are going at eachother in full out "randori", with or without gi. I'm trying to do a technique on you, grab you, tackle you, or throw you, but since you are so masterful, you are "resisting" me. So then I say to myself "hummm? how can I get him not to "Resistent"?" So then I blast you with a front instep kick to the groin, so hard it lifts you up off your feet. Which would be easy to do, since I'm sure you lack any ability to defend against a kick (as I have witnessed from just about ALL BJJ/MMA people). Then you are in shock, in pain, sickened. Then I easily grab you, throw you, lock you out on the ground, break your wrist, your ribs, your jaw, drive the full wgt of my body behind my knee into the side of your neck and your ceratoid process until you pass out. OH!!! But wait!! My kicking you in the groin is against YOUR "RULES"!!!! Isn't it? JJ practitioners have no "rules", I have no "rules". Didn't those "street fighters" you claim came into your JJ dojo, have no "rules" either? Isn't that the real reason you had difficulty? Not that your JJ class did not engage in "randori"?
You must remember, most people have LIVES!! Jobs, school, work, homes, cars, families, children to raise, other things to do than Martial arts. They are not Full time, professional, hard core, pumped up, do or die fighters. They cannot risk serious injury. Perhaps you can. If they sustain a serious injury, they could possible be fired from their job. Then their family is homeless. But of course if you are in England, that socialist nanny state, then the gov't will take care of you, won't it? But most people in the "real world" have to fend for themselves.
Last edited by aspenrebel on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:42 am; edited 1 time in total