Cichorei Kano wrote: That being said, no one implied that 8 people were lying for the simple reason that I do not find it credible that all those 8 people who happened to attend last year were actually teaching goshinjutsu and formed some kind of panel in which each of them were asked what precisely was being said, the more since this issue seems to have popped up only now. Some of them are experienced in goshinjutsu, some of them are not at all.
While I take your point, I still fail to understand how someone who does not speak a word of Japanese, or 8 people of whom to the best of my knowledge no one speaks Japanese, would conclude what needs to be said when, for example, take NBK, who is fluent in Japanese, who has translated the official Kôdôkan Goshinjutsu brochure, and who so far is the only one who in recent years as a foreigner was asked to translated during the actual Kôdôkan Kata Summer Course specifically for Goshinjutsu, and who also is the only one of all the people who translated whose translations were in correct English, lucid and to the point. In essence this is the same issue that we have been having in Europe since the 1970s. Someone comes back from the course in Japan, says that we have been doing it all wrong and they now changed it all, usually people who do not speak a word of Japanese.
It would be very strange --yes, perhaps not impossible-- that in all of the previous courses that come to memory something else was said, but most importantly no matter what one might claim it still needs to be a Japanese, and as someone qualified in Japanese linguistics I am dying to know which Japanese words were used. It is a bit the same as me telling you that we had a Dutch teacher here yesterday who told us that when the Dutch meet each other they say "Frmpffflt aksssprt" which is a common expression used in colloquial Amsterdam speak. By the way, none of use speak nor understand a word of Dutch but we are all sure, all 8 of us (who also speak nor understand Dutch) that this is what he said.
Well, before this already blows up, before I even had the chance to consult Mas Blonk about it, let me explain how things went.
There were two people teaching Kodokan goshinjutsu in Amsterdam, and about 30-40 people attending their class. Eventually we got to the gun-part and the teachers told us that 'hata kero' was the phrase to say. Someone then asked wether or not it should be 'te agero'. They explained that there are several ways to express the same intent, but since they were taught at the Kodokan that 'hata kero' was used, they would stick with that. This was confirmed by several other attendants who went with them to the Kodokan. So no, there was no such thing as an official panel nor were all separately questioned about it. It was as spontanious as the 'pop up' of this very topic. I dont visit here regularly anymore and only saw this topic just this morning, and it is just quite a coincidence that Mas Blonk was mentioned in here, with the same text as was discussed at the course.
And dont get me wrong. I am not at all claiming that since several people said the same thing, it is automatically true. In fact, I realise how things can go. Sort of mass-psychology. One mishears something that all others did not even notice at all. They talk about it amongst themselves and next thing they are all convinced they heard the same. And I can also imagine that it was just as little an issue over there as it was here in Amsterdam, so perhaps no one even bothered to dig it out much further.
It does not even matter very much to me what phrase needs to be said, since I do not intent to hold-up any Japanese in the near future. It just made me curious wether or not we have another 'Dutch Invention' on our hands here. I will ask Mas about it. And I just also remembered that mr. Yano will visit Holland again in March. I will ask him aswel, since he speaks some English.