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    3.5 Hour Explanation & Demonsration of Ju-no-kata

    Cichorei Kano
    Cichorei Kano


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    Post by Cichorei Kano Wed May 29, 2013 4:23 am

    Ju-no-kata - Part 1




    Ju-no-kata - Part 2




    Ju-no-kata - Part 3




    Ju-no-kata - Part 4




    Ju-no-kata - Part 5




    Ju-no-kata - Part 6




    Ju-no-kata - Part 7




    Additional Explanations on Ryô-kata-oshi

    afulldeck
    afulldeck


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    Post by afulldeck Wed May 29, 2013 8:23 am

    Nice Find. Thanks for posting.
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    Hanon


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    Post by Hanon Wed May 29, 2013 8:43 am

    Never seen this before. All new to me from the holding hands rei onward. Who is Pat parker and where did he learn that?
    Does he know this clip is in the public domain?

    Many important things need to be addressed here. I think it unwise to let those clips stand alone without peer review?

    Mike
    cuivien
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    Post by cuivien Thu May 30, 2013 7:13 pm

    Pat Parker: Wikipedia user account
    Apparently he's 6th dan aikido, 5th dan judo... Embarassed
    His dojo: Mokuren dojo
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    pat parker


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    Post by pat parker Fri May 31, 2013 1:16 am

    yep. that's me.

    I never claimed to be the ultimate expert at judo or junokata or anything, but that's what the folks wanted to see that weekend and I'd had some exposure to junokata in college and had been working on it (admittedly on and off) for about 20 years, so that's what we did that weekend.

    I'm glad you found those clips and posted them here. I hope you can get something of value out of them, or if not, maybe you can just laugh at my ineptitude ;-)

    You can find more of my crazy ideas about aikido and judo at my blog - www.mokurendojo.com


    Pat
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    Hanon


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    Post by Hanon Fri May 31, 2013 10:17 am

    pat parker wrote:yep. that's me.

    I never claimed to be the ultimate expert at judo or junokata or anything, but that's what the folks wanted to see that weekend and I'd had some exposure to junokata in college and had been working on it (admittedly on and off) for about 20 years, so that's what we did that weekend.

    I'm glad you found those clips and posted them here. I hope you can get something of value out of them, or if not, maybe you can just laugh at my ineptitude ;-)

    You can find more of my crazy ideas about aikido and judo at my blog - www.mokurendojo.com


    Pat

    Welcome to your forum.

    Who taught you your ju no kata?

    Video clips of judo especially kata need to be understood for the purpose they where taken. Is a clip made with the idea of learning from it or is it taken as a teaching aid? If a clip is posted to request help then that needs to be made clear so comments can be made to satisfy the author of the clip.
    I think, if I am not mistaken, your clips are of you teaching ju no kata and not a demonstration of your personal ability?
    This is significant as I am certain you are a very good dedicated teacher to your pupils. With this in mind it is, I know you will agree, very important that clips shown have a commentary.

    I have no idea if you agreed to have your clips published here? This again is VERY significant and important. You see when an opinion is posted here that opinion is always challenged and rightly so. I call it peer review like it or not lol The point I am trying to make is we all have a responsibility to review each others work to ensure we, as teachers, keep growing ourselves and pass that knowledge onto our pupils.

    There are actions in your clip of the ju no kata that are new to me. That does not mean they are wrong, not at all. What I would like it to mean is we can partake in debate so that we have an exchange of ideas and arrive at some joining of the ways.

    I do hope you will accept this post is written with respect and care and not as me blasting away at you and not taking on board the dedicated work you place into your judo and teaching, I am not discounting you at all.

    Sincerely,

    Mike
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    pat parker


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    Post by pat parker Fri May 31, 2013 11:53 am

    Thanks for the welcome. I agree with you - peer review is important. Without it we all have a tendency to spin off on our own tangents and get flaky. An internet forum is a difficult medium for peer review, though, because emotional content does not transmit well, and its easy to misunderstand intent.

    I first learnt junokata from Dr. Chris Dewey at Miss State, who learnt it from (i think) Fukuda sensei and one of the usja kata champs (fernandez maybe?) At seminars. Make no mistake, what they taught me was only remotely similar to what i was working on in those clips.

    The explicit purpose of that weekend on those video clips was to introduce a bunch of tomiki aikido folks to this kata that we figured must have had some influence on tomiki sensei's way of thinking, even though there are no surviving films of tomiki working junokata. These tomiki folks had no interest in learning acompetition form kata from a kata nazi - rather, they wanted to hear my ideas of how i thought it might be related to the stuff tomiki was doing.

    In fact, when they first asked me to teach junokata, i tried to beg off and give them a list of 3-4 instructors infinitely more qualified than me, but they assured me that they were specifically interested in exploring _my_ ideas wrt the connection btw tomiki and junokata.

    As such, it was a fun weekend, well-attended, and i threw out a ton of hints about motion and connection and kuzushi that seemed to be well-received. The little circle discussion at the end regarding what does junokata have to do with randori impressed me and convinced me that my ideas that i'd thrown out had been caught.

    Certainly, there were many, many flat out errors in what we did, but it worked pretty good for the stated purpose - and everyone had fun and nobody got hurt, so it was a good day :-)
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    Hanon


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    Post by Hanon Fri May 31, 2013 12:12 pm

    pat parker wrote:Thanks for the welcome. I agree with you - peer review is important. Without it we all have a tendency to spin off on our own tangents and get flaky. An internet forum is a difficult medium for peer review, though, because emotional content does not transmit well, and its easy to misunderstand intent.

    I first learnt junokata from Dr. Chris Dewey at Miss State, who learnt it from (i think) Fukuda sensei and one of the usja kata champs (fernandez maybe?) At seminars. Make no mistake, what they taught me was only remotely similar to what i was working on in those clips.

    The explicit purpose of that weekend on those video clips was to introduce a bunch of tomiki aikido folks to this kata that we figured must have had some influence on tomiki sensei's way of thinking, even though there are no surviving films of tomiki working junokata. These tomiki folks had no interest in learning acompetition form kata from a kata nazi - rather, they wanted to hear my ideas of how i thought it might be related to the stuff tomiki was doing.

    In fact, when they first asked me to teach junokata, i tried to beg off and give them a list of 3-4 instructors infinitely more qualified than me, but they assured me that they were specifically interested in exploring _my_ ideas wrt the connection btw tomiki and junokata.

    As such, it was a fun weekend, well-attended, and i threw out a ton of hints about motion and connection and kuzushi that seemed to be well-received. The little circle discussion at the end regarding what does junokata have to do with randori impressed me and convinced me that my ideas that i'd thrown out had been caught.

    Certainly, there were many, many flat out errors in what we did, but it worked pretty good for the stated purpose - and everyone had fun and nobody got hurt, so it was a good day :-)

    Dear parker sensei, Thank you for reading my post with the intent it was posted. I agree with you that it is difficult to peer review our efforts here but it does happen and it is, as you write, healthy and good for our own growth plus those that may read threads like this.

    I get where you are coming from and thank you for your honesty and openness, its refreshing to find a sensei like yourself who will admit they got caught up in a situation and did their best. Been there, done that and got the T-shirt as they say lol.

    Now we have the full context of the clip I don't think further debate is required. You where invited to give a ju no kata lesson and freely did so.

    If I may be so bold? If you did desire some pointers with your ju no kata there are posters here who will be only to willing to offer you all the support you need.

    Oddly enough, and I have no idea why, I also get invited to teach both kime no kata and ju no kata to various budoka?

    Thank you for your kind reply,

    Best wishes to you and yours,

    Mike
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    pat parker


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    Post by pat parker Fri May 31, 2013 12:14 pm

    Ha, i'm always open to folks giving me hints about the infinite things im missing in junokata and everything else.
    cuivien
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    Post by cuivien Fri May 31, 2013 11:20 pm

    pat parker wrote:Thanks for the welcome. I agree with you - peer review is important. Without it we all have a tendency to spin off on our own tangents and get flaky. An internet forum is a difficult medium for peer review, though, because emotional content does not transmit well, and its easy to misunderstand intent.

    I first learnt junokata from Dr. Chris Dewey at Miss State, who learnt it from (i think) Fukuda sensei and one of the usja kata champs (fernandez maybe?) At seminars. Make no mistake, what they taught me was only remotely similar to what i was working on in those clips.

    The explicit purpose of that weekend on those video clips was to introduce a bunch of tomiki aikido folks to this kata that we figured must have had some influence on tomiki sensei's way of thinking, even though there are no surviving films of tomiki working junokata. These tomiki folks had no interest in learning acompetition form kata from a kata nazi - rather, they wanted to hear my ideas of how i thought it might be related to the stuff tomiki was doing.

    In fact, when they first asked me to teach junokata, i tried to beg off and give them a list of 3-4 instructors infinitely more qualified than me, but they assured me that they were specifically interested in exploring _my_ ideas wrt the connection btw tomiki and junokata.

    As such, it was a fun weekend, well-attended, and i threw out a ton of hints about motion and connection and kuzushi that seemed to be well-received. The little circle discussion at the end regarding what does junokata have to do with randori impressed me and convinced me that my ideas that i'd thrown out had been caught.

    Certainly, there were many, many flat out errors in what we did, but it worked pretty good for the stated purpose - and everyone had fun and nobody got hurt, so it was a good day :-)

    Mr. Parker, I can only echo hanon in saying thank you for a clear explanation.

    I can certainly see that there is merit in teaching jû-no-kata to people involved with Tomiki aikido, and also that some adjustments would have to be made in comparison to, say, a selection of the members on this forum Wink

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