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Q mystic
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    The Judo Chronicles: Clinch-Fighting Against The Cage

    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:33 pm

    http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/6/16/4435210/the-judo-chronicles-clinch-fighting-against-the-cage

    Like many Judoka, I suffer paroxysms when I behold static cage clinching, because Judo affords numerous ready opportunities for effective takedowns from this position. If these were more widely known in MMA, fans would nevermore have to endure the mind-numbing, yet disturbingly erotic spectacle of muscular athletes embracing fiercely against a metal fence for extended periods of time. So here are a few basic Judo throws that can and should be used to advance a fence-clinching situation.

    Good observations on one the weaknesses of most mma games.
    genetic judoka
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    Post by genetic judoka Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:27 am

    this is far from my area of expertise, but I have some experience dealing with this because I've spent some time training a MMA oriented judoka buddy of mine for situations like this. here's one thing we work on.

    one thing we drilled was pushing the opponent against the cage, and I mean really lunging into them. in doing so, when the cage rebounds it makes them spring back, thereby creating kuzushi for a forward throw.

    we practice this using the crash pad leaning against the wall at the dojo, which I imagine is less springy than an actual cage, and it works beautifully.

    we also work on doing hiza guruma when you're the one pushed against the cage. you kinda throw your opponent into the wall, but hey that's ok.
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    Post by Ricebale Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:30 pm

    Indeed, imo the cage is a great tool for judoka, moreso than for wrestlers.

    The "bounce" is equivalent to a single sharp jacket lapel pull for turning throws and in the case of no bounce most judoka have superior ashi waza.

    It's about context and recognizing this strength, most judoka I've seen try their magic in the middle where it is usually unsafe to turn the back to the opponent. Off a cage bounce the opponent has great difficulty fighting their own momentum plus that of the throw.

    I train dudes specifically for this bounce as it is a gift, it replaces the jacket in a lot of ways for the kuzushi assist.

    Cheers


    Last edited by Ricebale on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)
    Glorfindel
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    Post by Glorfindel Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:23 am

    The thing with a cage/ring is that for forward throws, there is a lot of chance that the uke's foot will touch the wall/rope and fuck-up your throw.

    The one that we use and that work, are foot sweep and throws along the wall not perpendicular ( for the reason i said earlier).

    Foot sweep are good and underused. A lot of people will kind of 'sit' on the wall of the cage with their C.G" backward, so it's easy to foot sweep. In a lot of our mma fight, you will ear me scream: 'Ouchi/Kouchi' espacialy againt wrestler.
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    Post by Ricebale Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:05 am

    Yes I agree.

    For the turning throws you need to let the bounce bring them away from the cage. Rings are more problematic I think than cages for throw disruption.

    The bait for turning throws for me was to use the cage bounce to let them win the the push back and when you are at thr inside line commence the turn and backstep to throw. However I grant that any footsweeps are usually higher percentage than turning throws. Risk v reward options.

    Cheers
    Q mystic
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    Post by Q mystic Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:09 am

    Rice, you gotta do one for judo off the fence, too.thumbup1 I don't think the fence is really all that favorable and not a lot of news there with what we have seen from other judoka. I think judoka can try to make the best of it, and they do, but let's take a look at old man and somewhat mma-noob, Akiyama. he might've fought some scrubs but he also fought heavy and never really needed to fight anyway.

    I'm very interested in his ability to throw often, if not always, near the center of the ring in the UFC. Always seeming, comfortably. I think judoka could learn a lot here. 





    I looove this guy. Akiyama!!lol   As well as Hiromitsu Miura, others as well. They threw near the contact from the boxing pov. That's the stuff I love to see.
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    Post by Ricebale Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:35 am

    The thrust of my point is the "unrealized potential" for Judo technique and strategy off the cage.

    I use and teach it but most people are obsessed with leg attacks on the cage which in my view whilst high percentage are also high energy burners which equates to a lower efficiency rating.

    Good clip btw
    Q mystic
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    Post by Q mystic Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:53 am

    Ricebale wrote:The thrust of my point is the "unrealized potential" for Judo technique and strategy off the cage.

    I use and teach it but most people are obsessed with leg attacks on the cage which in my view whilst high percentage are also high energy burners which equates to a lower efficiency rating.

    Good clip btw

    I hear you and I like this idea, as well as the title(s). Huge bonus for the fighters of judo in mma that don't even do the tie-up or fence deal.

    Fence is huge but we also have to keep these guys that don't fence throw in the spotlight as well. These 'scrappers'.lol

    Of course, fence fighting (for tie) is overwhelmingly more common for judoka it seems and makes for an excellent opening page.

    +1 for anyone that knows the piano player or tune from piano.Very Happy
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    Post by Q mystic Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:23 am

    ah, Rice. I'm sorry. Sincerely. I completely missed the link you posted in 1st post. Just read the chat on down. Numerous times.=(

    We should maybe do something like that here, tho.  Just threads similar where fellas can offer.

    To respond to link, I think the best by far is to always remove opponents leg, unless he is a better judo fighter but even then. Keeping other opponents leg up or out even slightly, if in some control is more stress to other fella and removes a lot if any striking power or resourcefulness. They really don't just get their leg back. Most judoka have a pretty good developed one leg deal compared to any others imo. For instance, you aren't going to get kneed in the face off the hop by a lot of others, in this case.lol. Not a fan of bounce off fence as that makes for just a quicker drop shot more than anything, unless you have it really well timed. Knees tho there, maybe.lol
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    Post by Glorfindel Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:43 am

    Guys, dont talk about leg attack against the cage!

    There is one thing, that i hate to see and dont understand, even at top level mma fight.

    WHy are you PUSHING the guys against the cage when you have a single or double? WHYYYYYYYYYY?

    You should do the exact opposite! Pull him off the cage to have full range to finish the single/double!

    Get the leg (good grip) and pull him off to finish the take down.

    WHen you dive for the leg, most people will 'sit' on the cage and try to do some pummeling...Then kouchi/ouchi are comming Smile

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    Post by DougNZ Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:05 am

    One technique we worked on with success (cage, not ring) was to pin the opponent against the wall with a front clinch.  We then did a sort of slow motion hopping uchimata, sliding the opponent sideways down the cage wall, with pressure into the wall the whole time.  By the time their head touched the mat, we transitioned into a knee ride, pinning the opponent into the angle between the wall and the mat.  Then it was trap and bash.  Worked well, repeatedly.
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    Post by Q mystic Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:18 am

    Glorfindel wrote:Guys, dont talk about leg attack against the cage!

    There is one thing, that i hate to see and dont understand, even at top level mma fight.

    WHy are you PUSHING the guys against the cage when you have a single or double? WHYYYYYYYYYY?

    You should do the exact opposite! Pull him off the cage to have full range to finish the single/double!

    Get the leg (good grip) and pull him off to finish the take down.

    WHen you dive for the leg, most people will 'sit' on the cage and try to do some pummeling...Then kouchi/ouchi are comming Smile

    \

    I agree. With prior heavy experience using kouchi, ouchi, kosoto, osoto, uchimata, etc.., why even go for a double or single? Work the rest of your game comfortably one legged each and that should hugely favor judoka over others. Not just in td, but every area.

    In Ivo Dos Santos recent loss, he got fella vs cage in this case, and force-fed a hip throw. Why? He wasn't necessarily losing there and fella had good bjj I believe. Maybe he shoulda just fought some there. Remove fellas leg with his somewhat and take over, with choppy shots or elbows or something. Typical mma vet coaches really know nothing of a judokas ability for leg control via one leg of their own. Could be very, very well strategized, imo.
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    Post by Q mystic Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:25 am

    The mma game is still really wide open. Take your vet judoka that enters mma. He will prolly go instinct defence. Like Ivos above. Iffin the US or Canada then when he joins mma, he will be taught a wrestling/bjj concept. If what the judoka at club does early seems fine, it still won't really register with the bjj or wrestling coach at the club, similarily, and they will demo to you the issues. But, they won't be the same issues to a judoka that they are with this 'tech' to the others, to them.

    It's scary maybe and the necessity for calm is to listen, sure, but too much maybe. Not with grappling, imo. The best thing for a judoka is to do some good inexpensive oly ammy boxing before anything mma. Lose the striking defence instinct and then gravitate to a coach that offers more opportunity for you to do your thing and then he'll tighten your game. You need to carry opportunity with you as a judoka and it's hard to get by with few judo concepts. It isn't be all, end all of course, but I believe if you have decent judo, just do your judo. The coach should fill your holes(ad they'll be big) but not take you off your game.
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:23 am

    Q mystic wrote:Rice, you gotta do one for judo off the fence, too.thumbup1 I don't think the fence is really all that favorable and not a lot of news there with what we have seen from other judoka. I think judoka can try to make the best of it, and they do, but let's take a look at old man and somewhat mma-noob, Akiyama. he might've fought some scrubs but he also fought heavy and never really needed to fight anyway.

    I'm very interested in his ability to throw often, if not always, near the center of the ring in the UFC. Always seeming, comfortably. I think judoka could learn a lot here. 





    I looove this guy. Akiyama!!lol   As well as Hiromitsu Miura, others as well. They threw near the contact from the boxing pov. That's the stuff I love to see.

    We should learn that if we are highest level judoka (like Akiyama) then we can throw other people around pretty easily, regardless.

    Akiyama also seems to have actually tried to combine his incredible judo ability with his MMA skills, unlike a lot of judoka who seemed intent on getting very good at striking separate from their throwing ability, not really integrating the two. Akiyama seems to have attempted to do so and done so pretty well.

    Again, he is an incredible athlete and highest level judoka who entered MMA before he was washed up physically.

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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:30 am

    Ricebale wrote:The thrust of my point is the "unrealized potential" for Judo technique and strategy off the cage.

    I use and teach it but most people are obsessed with leg attacks on the cage which in my view whilst high percentage are also high energy burners which equates to a lower efficiency rating.

    Good clip btw

    One of my (former) judo students is actively training MMA at a good gym, and is 2-0 in ammy fights so far, with another coming up late July/Early August.

    He visited town last night and did some Judo with us. We talked about using Judo in MMA. He said it was not as easy as you might think. I mentioned this thread and your comments about using the cage. So far his bouts have been in rings, not cages. He said he did try to bounce them out of the corner and throw, and he did try foot sweeps (specifically ashi barai). The mat surface was sticky, so the ashi barai didn't work, and his attempts at Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi?Hiza guruma (which he is pretty good at) failed, but thought that was more a function of the specific situations than anything else. He did throw a guy with a massive Harai goshi, though, but threw him on his face, mounted and pounded the guy, who got saved from a TKO by the bell.

    In any case, his MMA coaches actually try to integrate his Judo into his "game", but as you know there is so much more to MMA it's a long slow process.

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    Post by Q mystic Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:35 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Q mystic wrote:Rice, you gotta do one for judo off the fence, too.thumbup1 I don't think the fence is really all that favorable and not a lot of news there with what we have seen from other judoka. I think judoka can try to make the best of it, and they do, but let's take a look at old man and somewhat mma-noob, Akiyama. he might've fought some scrubs but he also fought heavy and never really needed to fight anyway.

    I'm very interested in his ability to throw often, if not always, near the center of the ring in the UFC. Always seeming, comfortably. I think judoka could learn a lot here. 





    I looove this guy. Akiyama!!lol   As well as Hiromitsu Miura, others as well. They threw near the contact from the boxing pov. That's the stuff I love to see.

    We should learn that if we are highest level judoka (like Akiyama) then we can throw other people around pretty easily, regardless.

    Akiyama also seems to have actually tried to combine his incredible judo ability with his MMA skills, unlike a lot of judoka who seemed intent on getting very good at striking separate from their throwing ability, not really integrating the two. Akiyama seems to have attempted to do so and done so pretty well.

    Again, he is an incredible athlete and highest level judoka who entered MMA before he was washed up physically.



    I, personally, believe he did it separate and just kept the concept personal to himself. Ronda should do similar. I also believe that level is really no issue depending on your opponent and do believe that even so, ones judo will evolve with his fights. Moreso than his training of mma, regarding his judo, in a way but believe that's a no-brainer. The big jump is the game. Maybe like Jacksons for instance, but one shouldn't just sell short and would be catered off initial talent anyway.

    regarding Aki, we've seen so many elites much younger(even judoka) and fighting better weights. I think the better eye goes for what has been done. I think you might be right if in that he is super, super smart and just didn't have the endurance or maybe did have over-confidence. Maybe he just didn't care so much either, which might be bonus. He did what he did tho and that's a very open measure for judoka.

    If you believe that his grappling/striking transition is mma oriented, then you give too much to mma. Or more concise, mma and judo.
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    Post by Q mystic Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:49 am

    sry Ben. Ok. To be more clear, If I was a somewhat younger, good, tuff judo competitor and I sincerely wanted to fight mma. I'd do boxing, ammy oly style for sometime and I sure would not let them furk it up by telling me what to do and when, outside of this. Same goes for mma. Now, I do know that mma is good but they haven't my concept of fighting. It's actually pretty rare. I want basics and I'll deal. I'll notice if issues happen. I want a coach that caters to me, assuming I always give him 100% effort.

    MMA coaching has nothing grappling for Ronda for instance. Teach her to box and let her keep her own fight. Aki was exhausted, Pawel was exhausted. To think that scrappers can't match Olympians is a huge mistake. Nastula and Akiyamas physical is, well, there are 10,000 others like each physically. Really demos the winner in Pawel and Akiyama In judo.

    we've seen other highest level judoka athletes ranging across the board from Kim Min Soo to Bu Kung Jung. Their athleticism is no biggie.
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    Post by Ricebale Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:15 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Ricebale wrote:The thrust of my point is the "unrealized potential" for Judo technique and strategy off the cage.

    I use and teach it but most people are obsessed with leg attacks on the cage which in my view whilst high percentage are also high energy burners which equates to a lower efficiency rating.

    Good clip btw

    One of my (former) judo students is actively training MMA at a good gym, and is 2-0 in ammy fights so far, with another coming up late July/Early August.

    He visited town last night and did some Judo with us. We talked about using Judo in MMA. He said it was not as easy as you might think. I mentioned this thread and your comments about using the cage. So far his bouts have been in rings, not cages. He said he did try to bounce them out of the corner and throw, and he did try foot sweeps (specifically ashi barai). The mat surface was sticky, so the ashi barai didn't work, and his attempts at Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi?Hiza guruma (which he is pretty good at) failed, but thought that was more a function of the specific situations than anything else. He did throw a guy with a massive Harai goshi, though, but threw him on his face, mounted and pounded the guy, who got saved from a TKO by the bell.

    In any case, his MMA coaches actually try to integrate his Judo into his "game", but as you know there is so much more to MMA it's a long slow process.


    The ring complicates things imo as the opponents limbs and bottom get caught up in the throw or sweep motion which save their balance.

    If you look at Aikiyama his boxing is good (in mma standards) so he is able to fight a Judo range and be a threat of damage which causes the opponent to cover, Aikiyamas weakness has primarily been his weight class moresothan his opponents skills.

    When coaching for ring fights I emphasise ko uchi and off the cover up rather than the clinch, as they fight out of a barrage I train for an over under tie up to a throw. The stickiness of the mat shouldn't be too much of an issue if the timing is good, easy said Smile
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:25 am

    Q mystic wrote:sry Ben. Ok. To be more clear, If I was a somewhat younger, good, tuff judo competitor and I sincerely wanted to fight mma. I'd do boxing, ammy oly style for sometime and I sure would not let them furk it up by telling me what to do and when, outside of this. Same goes for mma. Now, I do know that mma is good but they haven't my concept of fighting. It's actually pretty rare. I want basics and I'll deal. I'll notice if issues happen. I want a coach that caters to me, assuming I always give him 100% effort.

    MMA coaching has nothing grappling for Ronda for instance. Teach her to box and let her keep her own fight. Aki was exhausted, Pawel was exhausted. To think that scrappers can't match Olympians is a huge mistake. Nastula and Akiyamas physical is, well, there are 10,000 others like each physically. Really demos the winner in Pawel and Akiyama In judo.

    we've seen other highest level judoka athletes ranging across the board from Kim Min Soo to Bu Kung Jung. Their athleticism is no biggie.

    I think the key would be to find a MMA coach/program that can thoughtfully integrate your judo skills into MMA, just a they would for a skilled BJJer, wrestler, etc. You have to lose the habits that are contrary to MMA rules and situation, and gain other skills, then put them all together.

    I think your statement about Ronda may be a bit broad and uninformed...you have inside info? I don't , but I do believe she has cross trained in BJJ, wrestling, etc..and would have to work on no-gi stuff as well from whatever "style". No gi grappling is a bit different...

    Akiyama was exhausted? Nastula, yeah, I can see that, plus, I don't recall him doing nearly as much judo throwing as Akiyama does/did...they had two different styles of Judo in any case.

    Concepts are great, but when the punches and kicks start to fly from a skilled opponent, you had better be more than conceptual.
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    Post by Q mystic Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:32 pm

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Q mystic wrote:sry Ben. Ok. To be more clear, If I was a somewhat younger, good, tuff judo competitor and I sincerely wanted to fight mma. I'd do boxing, ammy oly style for sometime and I sure would not let them furk it up by telling me what to do and when, outside of this. Same goes for mma. Now, I do know that mma is good but they haven't my concept of fighting. It's actually pretty rare. I want basics and I'll deal. I'll notice if issues happen. I want a coach that caters to me, assuming I always give him 100% effort.

    MMA coaching has nothing grappling for Ronda for instance. Teach her to box and let her keep her own fight. Aki was exhausted, Pawel was exhausted. To think that scrappers can't match Olympians is a huge mistake. Nastula and Akiyamas physical is, well, there are 10,000 others like each physically. Really demos the winner in Pawel and Akiyama In judo.

    we've seen other highest level judoka athletes ranging across the board from Kim Min Soo to Bu Kung Jung. Their athleticism is no biggie.

    I think the key would be to find a MMA coach/program that can thoughtfully integrate your judo skills into MMA, just a they would for a skilled BJJer, wrestler, etc. You have to lose the habits that are contrary to MMA rules and situation, and gain other skills, then put them all together.

    I think your statement about Ronda may be a bit broad and uninformed...you have inside info? I don't , but I do believe she has cross trained in BJJ, wrestling, etc..and would have to work on no-gi stuff as well from whatever "style". No gi grappling is a bit different...

    Akiyama was exhausted? Nastula, yeah, I can see that, plus, I don't recall him doing nearly as much judo throwing as Akiyama does/did...they had two different styles of Judo in any case.

    Concepts are great, but when the punches and kicks start to fly from a skilled opponent, you had better be more than conceptual.

    I believe conceptual is what you had better have been.lol . I don't know what call I made with Ronda in other than throwing the idea in that it seems she be in process of heavily cross-trained. I don't think that's very good, was my point,tho.

    I don't believe people just lose habits until there is something better. That's fine as well but like you said earlier, just who says something is a bad habit? You certainly can't call if there really isn't enuff dealt. For instance, not such an elite, and not really wanting to use it but off the hop, let's say kesa. Hands down and near perfect yet is not typically used. I'd score that over sitting tight in guard yet it is referenced nothing really. Just saying. I'd like to delve into this more here.

    My statement on Ronda. Inside info? I have nothing.lol Not sure what you got from it, tho. Ronda is she and should be only doing ammy boxing. With occasional scraps vs wrestlers and bjjers. There's nowhere now she should be in where a knee would be a factor. I think fellas are prepping her for that tho, way before her time. If ever necessary. Silva hasn't needed the most opportunistic deal in mma via td. Maybe Ronda will simply do her more pay time deal that we've seen thing. I believe that.

    The call outside of Belfort blasting Aki. Or Bisping. Geesh, Ben. Re-watch the highlight. You know that he is not anything special outside of a very tight judo game and he likes to fight. Gi for 25-30 yrs. Nastula? Pounded newly hired UFCer in Barnett. Yup ankle locks are bad but I'm pretty sure that if he did have more opportunity or more brains behind him to do more more oly ammy boxing, he would certainly not have even tried a td. That's judo mein frère.lol. Where was a vet like Akis or Nastulas bad habit? They weren't athletic worth shiot. That's overated, albeit an obvious necessity..

    I believe we should take a closer look at what judoka are doing well. It's still just a fight and these guys didn't do anything wrong, even when there were plenty eyes saying so otherwise.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kDbWye_Cj0
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    Post by Q mystic Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:42 pm

    just don't get caught in media hype. The Olympic committees have had this down, maybe accidently or thru trial and error and being smart people..

    Miura short clip of no fence. Get to see a short clip of Condit do clean boxing w/o judo too.lololol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VAFcw64mYg
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    Emanuele2


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    Post by Emanuele2 Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:57 pm

    Once Satoshi Ishii said he fights better in the ring, because cage prevents him some moves.


    Last edited by Emanuele2 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by PointyShinyBurning Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:50 pm

    Once again Q, your posts defeat my understanding. Ronda shouldn't learn to defend knees because she shouldn't be at range to be hit by them? No one plans to be at range to get hit by a knee...

    Nastula should have fought the much more MMA experienced Barnett on the feet, because Judo automatically makes you amazing at amateur boxing?
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:59 am

    Q mystic wrote:sry Ben. Ok. To be more clear, If I was a somewhat younger, good, tuff judo competitor and I sincerely wanted to fight mma. I'd do boxing, ammy oly style for sometime and I sure would not let them furk it up by telling me what to do and when, outside of this. Same goes for mma. Now, I do know that mma is good but they haven't my concept of fighting. It's actually pretty rare. I want basics and I'll deal. I'll notice if issues happen. I want a coach that caters to me, assuming I always give him 100% effort.

    MMA coaching has nothing grappling for Ronda for instance. Teach her to box and let her keep her own fight. Aki was exhausted, Pawel was exhausted. To think that scrappers can't match Olympians is a huge mistake. Nastula and Akiyamas physical is, well, there are 10,000 others like each physically. Really demos the winner in Pawel and Akiyama In judo.

    we've seen other highest level judoka athletes ranging across the board from Kim Min Soo to Bu Kung Jung. Their athleticism is no biggie.

    I respect your sense of independence, however, I doubt you would be successful following that "formula" for getting into MMA even if you were young and tough. MMA is too specialized to just follow your own concept and "deal".

    Ronda had specialized coaching in MMA. You attitude is like telling a boxer to "keep his concept of the fight", so a little Greco Roman, and you will do fine.

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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:23 am

    Q mystic wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Q mystic wrote:sry Ben. Ok. To be more clear, If I was a somewhat younger, good, tuff judo competitor and I sincerely wanted to fight mma. I'd do boxing, ammy oly style for sometime and I sure would not let them furk it up by telling me what to do and when, outside of this. Same goes for mma. Now, I do know that mma is good but they haven't my concept of fighting. It's actually pretty rare. I want basics and I'll deal. I'll notice if issues happen. I want a coach that caters to me, assuming I always give him 100% effort.

    MMA coaching has nothing grappling for Ronda for instance. Teach her to box and let her keep her own fight. Aki was exhausted, Pawel was exhausted. To think that scrappers can't match Olympians is a huge mistake. Nastula and Akiyamas physical is, well, there are 10,000 others like each physically. Really demos the winner in Pawel and Akiyama In judo.

    we've seen other highest level judoka athletes ranging across the board from Kim Min Soo to Bu Kung Jung. Their athleticism is no biggie.

    I think the key would be to find a MMA coach/program that can thoughtfully integrate your judo skills into MMA, just a they would for a skilled BJJer, wrestler, etc. You have to lose the habits that are contrary to MMA rules and situation, and gain other skills, then put them all together.

    I think your statement about Ronda may be a bit broad and uninformed...you have inside info? I don't , but I do believe she has cross trained in BJJ, wrestling, etc..and would have to work on no-gi stuff as well from whatever "style". No gi grappling is a bit different...

    Akiyama was exhausted? Nastula, yeah, I can see that, plus, I don't recall him doing nearly as much judo throwing as Akiyama does/did...they had two different styles of Judo in any case.

    Concepts are great, but when the punches and kicks start to fly from a skilled opponent, you had better be more than conceptual.

    I believe conceptual is what you had better have been.lol . I don't know what call I made with Ronda in other than throwing the idea in that it seems she be in process of heavily cross-trained. I don't think that's very good, was my point,tho.

    I understand you like to stimulate conversation here, but seriously, I don't think you have much "concept" of how to train or coach anything. What you seem to suggest flies in the face common sense. Ammy boxing? Who kicks, elbows, or knees in "ammy" boxing? Or wears headgear in pro MMA matches. Who trains/does lower body submissions in Judo at the level of BJJ, Sambo, or the various forms of sub-wrestling? Deal with Heal Hooks conceptually? That's like dealing with a strong lefty in Judo "conceptually", or the first time you do randori with a decent Japanese judoka and can't understand why all your grip breaks simply cannot cut his iron grip on your sleeve and he/she magically has it controlled no matter what you do other than run and hide.

    I don't believe people just lose habits until there is something better.

    No, they train out of them, just like in Judo, BJJ, or any other activity from swimming to horseback riding. It takes a looooong time and a lot of training and effort. Like judoka giving their backs in a BJJ match...

    That's fine as well but like you said earlier, just who says something is a bad habit? You certainly can't call if there really isn't enuff dealt. For instance, not such an elite, and not really wanting to use it but off the hop, let's say kesa. Hands down and near perfect yet is not typically used. I'd score that over sitting tight in guard yet it is referenced nothing really. Just saying. I'd like to delve into this more here.

    Kesa Gatame is a fine hold, and has applications in MMA. Is it the best thing to do? Ronda makes it work but who is she fighting? Tough, determined women for sure, and one nearly beat her because she used Kesa against the cage...in the middle of the ring, maybe OK. Against a so-so grappler, maybe OK, as in Ronda's latest case. But against a high level elite male MMA guy? Probably suicide..it's all about context...

    My statement on Ronda. Inside info? I have nothing.lol Not sure what you got from it, tho. Ronda is she and should be only doing ammy boxing. With occasional scraps vs wrestlers and bjjers. There's nowhere now she should be in where a knee would be a factor. I think fellas are prepping her for that tho, way before her time. If ever necessary. Silva hasn't needed the most opportunistic deal in mma via td. Maybe Ronda will simply do her more pay time deal that we've seen thing. I believe that.


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