My experiences as a judoka in BJJ

nomoremondays wrote:
frankly because of my long legs I've always had a strong preference for fighting from my back, so that was a non issue. what took the most focus for me was not giving up my back like I could safely do in judo, and keeping people's back when I got it instead of transitioning to something else like I would in judo because of shorter groundwork time.

genetic judoka wrote:so I went back again last night. it was an even better class than last week. we worked on some sneaky armbar entries, one of which I'd never seen before (and it's fast enough to work in judo), so that was pretty cool. the teacher was apparently impressed with the way I did it (he corrected a lot of people, but my application was supposedly "perfect"), which was a nice little ego boost. that ego boost was short lived though as I was invited to roll with the head instructor (who is my exact same weight). you know, I am quite aware that I am far from the best in the world on the ground. in fact very far from it. but I always thought I was good enough that nobody could just play with me. boy was I wrong. he wasn't even trying! granted I wasn't going 100% either (you don't show up to a judo club and try to throw the instructor with harai makikomi your first randori session), but he was going at it a lot less intensely. we went for a 7 minute round, and in those 7 minutes he used the same exact guard pass 4 times and it wasn't until the 5th attempt that I figured out how to block it, at which point he used a different one. I got one good half guard sweep in the entire time, and almost got a baseball bat choke in, but that's it. apparently I impressed him a little bit though with my submission defense, his commentary immediately after was that I was "strong as an ox with really good balance and a lot of heart." I don't have a fragile ego by any means (as evidenced by my willingness to put up videos to be torn apart), I went there because I wanted to get better on the ground, and the only way to do that is to work with people who are really good on the ground. so I think this is gonna be a really good experience for me. I look forward to continuing there.

they are trying hard to talk me into showing up to their saturday stand up class. I'm considering it, but I have 2 reservations:

first, I "teach" a class on saturday (by that I mean I run people ragged with a long warmup and then oversee/participate in an even longer randori session, so it's not exactly "teaching"), and their class starts an hour after mine ends, and runs for a few hours. if I go in, I'll be so tired I'll be worthless to my wife by the end of the day.

second, their mats are thin. they have puzzle mats (at least it's the thicker ones), which I can take clean falls on all day long, but I'm not sure how clean of throws those guys will be doing. also I'm kinda well known locally for throwing really really hard (I was trained to throw for the 1970's definition of ippon), and I'm worried that I will suddenly become a lot less popular after I go in and bury people in the mat.

but at the same time, they know I'm a judo black belt, and compared to some of them I suck on the ground (at least under their ruleset), I feel like in order to be a good ambassador for judo I should show that I at least kinda know what I'm doing standing. and even still, I feel like thinking along those lines is evidence that I have more of an ego than I'd like to admit.

so what should I do? I kinda gotta figure this out by tomorrow morning.

genetic judoka wrote:I guess this thread got resurrected.


one thing that I'm finding out is playing to my disadvantage rolling at the end of class, is that I tend to subconsciously still follow judo rules on the ground. by that I mean I avoid doing any cross face stuff, I don't go for sleeve end grips, and I don't go after shoulder locks, or the chokes considered neck cranks under judo rules. also I find that when I have the opportunity to take someone's back I almost never go for it, because I'm used to that being a "get stood back up" position in judo. and I'm quickly realizing that the RNC is my least practiced technique, and I'm not terribly well practiced at defending it either.

hedgehogey wrote:Leglocks are a subject in and of themselves. There's a positional component to them, although people will bypass that and think of them as a quick and easy solution to not trying to pass guard, which is dumb.

Here's what I think you're gonna have to remember here:

Most submissions, especially the hip heavy ones are positions in and of themselves. As a judoka, you've probably been taught a lot of finishing attacks in groundwork: how to hit a sub quickly, how to turn them over right into a pin. But subs in BJJ aren't usually like that. Most of them involve a miniature positional battle ending with uke gradually losing tactical options. You've probably bypassed this aspect entirely, like a business traveler over flyover country. But BJJ is the scenic route.

This is easiest to see in the omoplata: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgRKs2EK3a8

All of those guys put themselves in the omoplata "position" first before trying the omoplata submission itself and you can see that while all of them attacked succesfully, only one finished with the traditional omoplata submission.

How does this affect you? After all, you might say, while the world's round, the field I plow is still flat and an armbar's still heels in, hug the arm, lever over the hip. But it makes all the diference in the world to your training. Once you get the not-fucking-up down (and it will take you longer than you think), try hanging out in these sub[mission]-positions. You'll find that if you don't rush towards the sub every time, you'll pullmore attacks because your finish will be less predictable. (So if you change your process from isolate arm--->swing hips--->grab belt and smash shoulder to isolate arm--->swing hips--->find best tactical option then your number of successes will increase).

hedgehogey wrote:Leglocks are a subject in and of themselves. There's a positional component to them, although people will bypass that and think of them as a quick and easy solution to not trying to pass guard, which is dumb.

Here's what I think you're gonna have to remember here:

Most submissions, especially the hip heavy ones are positions in and of themselves. As a judoka, you've probably been taught a lot of finishing attacks in groundwork: how to hit a sub quickly, how to turn them over right into a pin. But subs in BJJ aren't usually like that. Most of them involve a miniature positional battle ending with uke gradually losing tactical options. You've probably bypassed this aspect entirely, like a business traveler over flyover country. But BJJ is the scenic route.

This is easiest to see in the omoplata: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgRKs2EK3a8

All of those guys put themselves in the omoplata "position" first before trying the omoplata submission itself and you can see that while all of them attacked succesfully, only one finished with the traditional omoplata submission.

How does this affect you? After all, you might say, while the world's round, the field I plow is still flat and an armbar's still heels in, hug the arm, lever over the hip. But it makes all the diference in the world to your training. Once you get the not-fucking-up down (and it will take you longer than you think), try hanging out in these sub[mission]-positions. You'll find that if you don't rush towards the sub every time, you'll pullmore attacks because your finish will be less predictable. (So if you change your process from isolate arm--->swing hips--->grab belt and smash shoulder to isolate arm--->swing hips--->find best tactical option then your number of successes will increase).

genetic judoka wrote:in fact I've only landed a few armbars the whole time I've been going (often I'll land some in my first time working with someone, then they kinda figure out that I'm a mistake hunter, and they start being more careful).

if I had top level judo newaza instruction available, I wouldn't need to do BJJ.

BJJ has attacks against the turtle as well, but they're nowhere near as explosive, or IMHO as effective as the ones found in judo.

That depends on what you're doing newaza for. If you're looking to improve your newaza for judo shiai, then no. If you're looking to improve your newaza in both breadth and depth overall, then there's a lot of things found only in BJJ that you won't see anywhere else.

sodo wrote:Hi hedgehogey,

That depends on what you're doing newaza for. If you're looking to improve your newaza for judo shiai, then no. If you're looking to improve your newaza in both breadth and depth overall, then there's a lot of things found only in BJJ that you won't see anywhere else.

Where's the thumbs up smiley

This is exactly the point I have been making since the beginning

atb


sodo

genetic judoka wrote:I figured it was time for an update.

so the tournament is tomorrow, and I gotta admit I'm nervous. more so than I've been before any judo tournament in recent memory. I am very much looking forward to it though. all the people I train with are of the belief that I'm gonna do great in the blue belt division, as I've been holding my own very well with the purple belts (landing lots of chokes, and a few armbars). and apparently I left a big impression when the brown belt who is my size (except built like the incredible hulk) took a nap after my well applied choke, and the next round I quickly swept and armbarred a fella who supposedly "never gets swept by anybody." and one of the purple belts said something that I got a real kick out of, something along the lines of: "over the years I've been choked hundreds if not thousands of times, including by many black belts, and the 2 times you've choked me are easily the tightest and fastest chokes I've ever been in, and surprisingly they didn't hurt at all."

my concern for tomorrow is that I'm playing in the heavyweight division (which means over 215) and I've yet to do much work with anyone more than 20-30 lbs heavier than me. I don't wanna get crushed by some 300+ lb blue belt (supposing some exist outside the over 30 divisions).

if all goes well I should have some videos to post, win or lose.

genetic judoka wrote:took second place in the blue belt heavyweight division. I looked like crap, but I chalk that up to being rusty as hell from not competing since before my surgery (making this my first tournament since august). my attempts at throwing were embarrassing, and I almost don't wanna post the video, but I said I would.

in the first match I tried to ignore my judo instincts to freak the f out and try to explode outta side control, based on the idea that he'd have to try to go for a submission, and that would be my opportunity, so I tried to save my energy. that match flew by so fast! when they threw the belt at us I thought we still had like 3 minutes. the second match I have no idea what happened with the throw, but I assume it was much like the first, in that I hesitated because my knees hurt (not an excuse, but an attempt at an explanation) and that cost me the points. the first one was a legit sumi gaeshi attempt though. I'm embarrassed but I may get another chance on the 30th.

genetic judoka wrote:you're right about the triangles. my knees are crap and triangles make them get worse so I avoid them, but I did try to threaten with them to try to get my opponent to give me an armbar. didn't work, but that was the plan.

really I didn't prepare as well as I should have. I didn't warm up my body properly, and didn't put in the effort I should have for the mental aspect before the first match, and it really showed.

I'll write this off as first tournament since the knee surgery and being rusty, but that's just a convenient excuse. truth is I lost fair and square, and failed to perform up to my normal standard, and need to just accept that and move on.