Is there pure harai goshi in competition?

Hi, everyone. It seems to me that for harai goshi to be effective, a rotating motion of tori's body is always involved. It is especially obvious in competitions where tori continues the throw into a pin. I feel all harai goshi in shiai are, more or less, harai goshi makikomi. Correct me if I am wrong, thanks.

Ed

edbiology wrote:Hi, everyone. It seems to me that for harai goshi to be effective, a rotating motion of tori's body is always involved. It is especially obvious in competitions where tori continues the throw into a pin. I feel all harai goshi in shiai are, more or less, harai goshi makikomi. Correct me if I am wrong, thanks.

Ed

Many western judoka believe the missconception of makikomi translating to 'following down to the mat'. This is nonsense and has nothing to do with the true meaning of makikomi, which is a winding motion

To answer your question: I've seen quite a few harai-goshi in competition. Jean-Luc Rougé from France was a specialist of this throw and used it vividely during his competition days. He even wrote a book about it in the ippon series. In shiai you often see harai-goshi performed with untraditional grips and many variations that are actually ashi-guruma

edbiology wrote:Hi, everyone. It seems to me that for harai goshi to be effective, a rotating motion of tori's body is always involved. It is especially obvious in competitions where tori continues the throw into a pin. I feel all harai goshi in shiai are, more or less, harai goshi makikomi. Correct me if I am wrong, thanks.

It's pretty easy to continue a pure harai-goshi into newaza. Harai makikomi is a different, nastier beast.

Would you say this is harai goshi or harai makikomi? It looks harai makikomi to me. But in Inoue's DVD, it's shown under harai goshi, with Neil Adam's narrative says that Inoue "almost finished with harai makikomi.

edbiology wrote:Hi, everyone. It seems to me that for harai goshi to be effective, a rotating motion of tori's body is always involved. It is especially obvious in competitions where tori continues the throw into a pin. I feel all harai goshi in shiai are, more or less, harai goshi makikomi. Correct me if I am wrong, thanks.

Ed

In the past we enjoyed some splendid harai-goshi displays in competition from people such as Jean-Luc Rougé or Willem Ruska.

There is an evolution towards less technical judo, which is part the consequence of changes in the IJF rules. In the past in order to score ippon, you really had to throw uke hard and flat on his back. Harai-goshi did just that. But with judo decaying as a display of patty-cake and rapid touch and go throws where any contact of an upper body part with the tatami could result in a score, many of those beautiful throws are observed less and less. A pity you weren't in judo 35 years ago, when pure harai-goshi in jûdô was a fairly frequent sight.

There are some disadvantages for harai goshi under current rules. Harai goshi is difficult to do off the grip, virtually requires two grips except maybe the rare deep underhook, tends to be ippon or nothing, and can result in a pickup or drag down counter. In addition, it requires a classical flow style which nowadays is so easily disrupted by grip breaks, bent waists, and other obstructionist techniques.

As much as I like harai goshi, for these reasons I do uchimata instead. Of course, for a self defense or MMA situation I prefer harai goshi.

Neil G wrote:

edbiology wrote:Hi, everyone. It seems to me that for harai goshi to be effective, a rotating motion of tori's body is always involved. It is especially obvious in competitions where tori continues the throw into a pin. I feel all harai goshi in shiai are, more or less, harai goshi makikomi. Correct me if I am wrong, thanks.

It's pretty easy to continue a pure harai-goshi into newaza.  Harai makikomi is a different, nastier beast.

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