another MMA death

BillC wrote:
But isn't it also true that  leaving the reproductive capacity intact while removing any ability for self-control and ultimately self-care, instead of regularly smashing the family jewels leaving the brain intact ... is somehow ... Darwinian?

PointyShinyBurning wrote:

BillC wrote:
But isn't it also true that  leaving the reproductive capacity intact while removing any ability for self-control and ultimately self-care, instead of regularly smashing the family jewels leaving the brain intact ... is somehow ... Darwinian?

Your concern is touching, undoubtedly genuine and expressed in a classy fashion.

The sport is not, never can be, completely safe. No full contact sport is.

BillC wrote:

PointyShinyBurning wrote:

BillC wrote:
But isn't it also true that  leaving the reproductive capacity intact while removing any ability for self-control and ultimately self-care, instead of regularly smashing the family jewels leaving the brain intact ... is somehow ... Darwinian?

Your concern is touching, undoubtedly genuine and expressed in a classy fashion.

The sport is not, never can be, completely safe. No full contact sport is.

But the difference is that the intent in MMA is to cause brain damage.  It's cheered, it leads to street level imitation ... as if it is no big deal ... World Star!  Sick f***ing culture ... and I have friends and dojo mates that are into this BIG TIME.  We simply disagree.

seatea wrote:This is just not true. The intent in MMA is, like any other sport, to win. I'm not saying that strikes to the head don't cause brain damage, but that isn't the reason fighters do those techniques. If a medical treatment were devised to remove any and all risk of brain damage from knock outs do you really think MMA fighters would stop KO'ing people, because no brain damage = no point?

seatea wrote:Anyway, it's my belief that the bulk of the damage done occurs in training. MMA gyms need to rid themselves (or at least reduce) the macho culture, and adopt sensible training practices; most concussions an MMA fighter receives will be in sparring sessions treated like actual fights, with little to no use of safety equipment and trainers not forcing students to take a break from striking when they do get a hit hard.

seatea wrote:This is just not true. The intent in MMA is, like any other sport, to win. I'm not saying that strikes to the head don't cause brain damage, but that isn't the reason fighters do those techniques. If a medical treatment were devised to remove any and all risk of brain damage from knock outs do you really think MMA fighters would stop KO'ing people, because no brain damage = no point?

While what you are saying is true hypothetically, but fails in one respect.  A knockout is brain damage.  And this is well known and a medical fact.  And it is still part of the sport.

I absolutely agree.  Has the brain of one of the greatest human beings I have ever met turned to tofu because of Joe Frazier, as my old man maintained?  Or because of the training he endured as a young man names Cassius Clay?  The answer is probably a bit of both.

But my post is not so much a rant against MMA and knockouts and a very sad and tragic end to a man's life ... which is no-win argument with fans ... stated again I am amazed at the priorities ... which organs do people really value?

seatea wrote:... I mainly believe it comes down to pain; being kick in the balls hurts a lot, far more than getting knocked out.

BillC wrote:Professional MMA fighter Booto Guylain passed away Wednesday after suffering a severe head injury in a Feb. 27 bout in Johannesburg, South Africa. He was 29.

Guylain, a middleweight with an 0-2 record, sustained the injury in a TKO loss to Keron Davies at an event hosted by the Extreme Fighting Championship Africa promotion.

MMA death in the news

No offense to fans ... actually I know some will take offense but I'll say it anyway.

So, with all the news about TBI in sports ... boxing, football, football, etc. ... we have yet another new sport where a kick to the nuts is illegal, penalized, considered to be unsporting, even unmanly ... and shots to the head are praised, encouraged and rewarded financially?

blood to use one at a time."

Davaro wrote:
Just like going down the alpine slopes, one does not have intent on messing your brain juice all over a rock. BUT you know it could happen don't you?

BillC wrote:

Not me!  I (insert word from below) better than the average mortal.  Everyone else is an idiot.

1.  drive
2.  ski
3.  cook
4.  vote
5.  fight
6.  make love
7.  post on E-Judo

Davaro wrote:Ah Bill, I hear you.

But I bet you no "fighter" goes out there with the intention of getting hit in the head? Hitting someone yes, but getting hit? No.

Just like going down the alpine slopes, one does not have intent on messing your brain juice all over a rock. BUT you know it could happen don't you?

Hanon wrote:Riehle sensei, simply superb post.

You are not just a pretty face are you!  

Kind regards,

Mike

Richard Riehle wrote:

Davaro wrote:Ah Bill, I hear you.

But I bet you no "fighter" goes out there with the intention of getting hit in the head? Hitting someone yes, but getting hit? No.

Just like going down the alpine slopes, one does not have intent on messing your brain juice all over a rock. BUT you know it could happen don't you?

This is not a good analogy.   There is certainly risk in every kind of sport, and every kind of human endeavor.   There is a difference between choosing a sport where the probability of risk of a certain kind of injury is high.  
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                    Risk Exposure = Risk Probability X Risk Severity
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The risks associated with skiing can be quite severe, but the probability of a given risk decreases with skill.   Moreover, the mountain on which you are skiing is not deliberately trying to injure you.   Combat, of any kind, involves two or more people trying to defeat an opponent.  In a combat sport where the goal is to do as much damage as possible to one's opponent, albeit within a certain set of rules, we have a different kind of exposure.   This kind of combat multiplies the risk probability, and when the severity is also high, the exposure value gets larger and larger.  

In Judo, we have a strict set of rules, and deliberately doing damage to one's opponent is not encouraged, even though such injury may inadventantly occur.  When it does occur, it is, if one is obeying the rules, accidental.   We are trained to throw our opponent so s/he can land safely.  We are forbidden from using certain dangerous techniques that have a high risk of injury to ourselves or our opponent.   There is some risk, of course, but the severity factor is greatly reduced by proscribing those dangerous techniques.  

Safety -- reduction in the probability of risk -- is also fundamental to many other combat sports.  In fencing, whether as Kendo or European style, we no longer use sharp blades, and we wear protective clothing.   Those who enjoy paintball combat protect themselves with special gear.  

But, in MMA, the object is to hurt the opponent until s/he cannot no longer stand the pain.  Draw blood, if possible.  Knock them unconscious if you can.   Traumatize their kidney at any opportunity.   And more.  

There is a relatively recent finding in the science of brain development that indicates that the human brain is still developing its rational thinking capabilities even into the early twenties.  One part of that finding shows that teen-agers and young adults are not fully aware of the dangers of certain behaviors, even when those dangers seem obvious.   They still believe themselves immortal and indestructible.  This pathology is one reason young soldiers can go into combat and do foolish things that we call heroic:  the reality of their actual death is not quite fully registered in their cerebral cortex.   For some people, there seems to be some indication that this reality is never fully developed in their brain.  I suspect that a lot of MMA participants are in that, "It could not happen to me," group.  

As I noted earlier, the continual trauma, even little micro-trauma, that one experiences in boxing, MMA, and even popular sports such as football, all accumulate over a lifetime, and put the participants at risk of serious disability as they age.   Of course, when we are young, we never think about what we will be like when we are elderly.   Old age seems so far away.   We might as well live now as if we will live forever enjoying the good health and sentient mind we have today.   The miracles of future medicine will fix me up if I start to have trouble.