Anti Bowing in Judo Rhetoric

Wandering WB wrote:judoratt

There is no rule that says you need to bow to Kano.

So, in other words, you would not bow to the portrait of Kano in a Japanese dojo? I wonder how long you would last there.
Just kidding, or, maybe not...

In general, though... Bowing does make less of you and the people who expect you to bow know this. Nobody is naturally as humble as some sensei expect you to be. So generally, while it is probably a good idea to follow the etiquette when there is no choice, if someone has to bow it is probably better to have others bow to you more deeply. Next time somebody you dislike asks you to bow, just nod your head. Then, if they show their true face (or their tail, rather...) and decide they want to fight over this, be prepared.

judoratt wrote:

contrarian wrote:how about bowing to picture of Kano?
i was looking this up today, and that's how i discovered that the old JF is no more.

i am presuming, people started doing this after he passed away.
how did people start their training before Kano passed away?
and must we bow to Kano now, before and after class?

There is no rule that says you need to bow to Kano.

Ricebale wrote:This dude would really struggle with sumo, the shinto rituals etc

Stacey wrote:

Ricebale wrote:This dude would really struggle with sumo, the shinto rituals etc

and thai boxing and anything else where there's a religious underpinning, or where a religious "meaning" can be attributed to an action, like the salute in fencing, or the high five in MMA and BJJ.

I wonder if the anti bowing crowd can swim competitively - that grab start looks a lot like bowing

Do you fish by any chance? If you do, do you ever catch anything?

Mike

Wandering WB wrote:judoratt

There is no rule that says you need to bow to Kano.

In general, though... Bowing does make less of you and the people who expect you to bow know this.

How does bowing make less of you? Do you mean as in, 'nice guys finish last'? Or that you are being submissive?

Wandering WB wrote:^finarashi
I don't know how much of that is a self-parody and how much merely a joke.

Wandering WB wrote:QMystic

How does bowing make less of you? Do you mean as in, 'nice guys finish last'? Or that you are being submissive?

Well, I propose you do an experiment. If you work at a place where people shake hands to greet each other, bow to everybody from the waist instead. You can tell us about your experience at the end of a week of this. If someone seriously claims that there is nothing wrong with bowing - hey, I'm a humble guy, I'm not gonna argue. I just think that then they should bow to me. Now you might point out that they may expect me to bow back - well ok, so long as they bow deeper. Preferably twice as deep. Nothing wrong with that, right?

That's about all I wanted to say.

seatea wrote:

Wandering WB wrote:QMystic

How does bowing make less of you? Do you mean as in, 'nice guys finish last'? Or that you are being submissive?

If someone seriously claims that there is nothing wrong with bowing - hey, I'm a humble guy, I'm not gonna argue. I just think that then they should bow to me. Now you might point out that they may expect me to bow back - well ok, so long as they bow deeper. Preferably twice as deep. Nothing wrong with that, right?