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Cichorei Kano
BillC
NittyRanks
tafftaz
Emanuele2
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    Name this throw

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    Emanuele2


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    Post by Emanuele2 Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:19 am

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPXIPrVU5yo
    What technique is shown at 4:07?
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    tafftaz


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    Post by tafftaz Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:12 am

    Sukui nage
    NittyRanks
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    Post by NittyRanks Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:36 am

    Really?
    BillC
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    Post by BillC Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:40 am

    Skilled entry into newaza?
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    Emanuele2


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    Post by Emanuele2 Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:21 am

    BillC wrote:Skilled entry into newaza?
    A such quick and powerful entry, doesn't grant newaza, it grants ippon.
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    tafftaz


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    Post by tafftaz Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:57 am

    NittyRanks wrote:Really?

    Really
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    tafftaz


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    Post by tafftaz Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:59 am

    Call it what you want.
    To me it is a hand assisted throw and as uke's legs were pulled/scooped up behind him and rolled over and I believe it falls into sukui nage territory.
    BillC
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    Post by BillC Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:00 am

    Emanuele2 wrote:
    BillC wrote:Skilled entry into newaza?
    A such quick and powerful entry, doesn't grant newaza, it grants ippon.

    Basically tall guy wrestles short guy to his hands and knees, short guy tries to bite tall guy's ankle, tall guy grabs short guy's leg and then flips him onto his back using strength. Yes, ippon as defined at the time. These days tall guy would be DQ'd, not sure about the short guy.

    In the long view of various rules sets ... it's just my opinion that if the rules weren't whacked the match should have continued on the floor. Short guy was not thrown in one continuous motion with control, speed and force. He was bested to be sure, but not killed in one blow.

    Em ... not picking an argument ... it's really just a matter of taste. What the referee announces is the score.

    I'd teach students to try to have the excellent presence of mind that the tall guy has, but not to practice winning by practicing this move over and over as tachiwaza.
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    tafftaz


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    Post by tafftaz Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:03 am

    What Bill said.

    Pointless exercise really as everyone will have a different take on whatever technique these sort of posts throw up.
    Cichorei Kano
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    Post by Cichorei Kano Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:04 am

    Emanuele2 wrote:
    A such quick and powerful entry, doesn't grant newaza, it grants ippon.


    Here's a trove of inspiration ...


    http://judopedia.com/index.php/Shin-kokusai-shiaiwaza:_Classification_of_Innovative_International_Competition_Techniques

    Go wild !!  bom 
    BillC
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    Post by BillC Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:08 am

    tafftaz wrote:Call it what you want.
    To me it is a hand assisted throw and as uke's legs were pulled/scooped up behind him and rolled over and I believe it falls into sukui nage territory.

    Maybe ...
    Ricebale
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    Post by Ricebale Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:52 am

    It's a very common throw in other belt wrestling sports,  I'll try and find the exact name.

    I've got it in a Sambo book somewhere.

    Edit: my judo name for it would be ricebale throw off a belt grip
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    DougNZ


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    Post by DougNZ Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:16 am

    Looks like a great way to wreck someone's neck ...
    Ben Reinhardt
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:46 am

    Ricebale wrote:It's a very common throw in other belt wrestling sports,  I'll try and find the exact name.

    I've got it in a Sambo book somewhere.

    Edit: my judo name for it would be ricebale throw off a belt grip

    Not rice bail type throw IMO.

    Muneta was barely in ne waza if at all. Today probably wouldn't be scored, but who knows?

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    Emanuele2


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    Post by Emanuele2 Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:01 am

    It seems also an obi tori gaeshi.


    Last edited by Emanuele2 on Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:44 am; edited 1 time in total
    Cichorei Kano
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    Post by Cichorei Kano Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:28 am

    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Ricebale wrote:It's a very common throw in other belt wrestling sports,  I'll try and find the exact name.

    I've got it in a Sambo book somewhere.

    Edit: my judo name for it would be ricebale throw off a belt grip

    Not  rice bail type throw IMO.

    Indeed not. It's a henka of hikkomi-gaeshi. Hikkomi-gaeshi exists in many different forms. Traditionally it is shown (for its migi form), right hand over the back at the belt, left hand under the uke's right armpit, left hand towards yourself, often grabbing your own lapel. Mikhaylin performs a hidari-version, and instead of going under the armpit of his opponent grabs his opponent's leg. This is one of the many hikkomi-gaeshi henka which Iatskevitch introduced me to in the 1980s. In those days these techniques were new and were creating havoc on the international scene with most opponents being caught by it. Some other international jûdôka, particularly in the light-weight categories adopted these techniques, but it was only when Iatskevitch caught me with it a couple of times during randori, that I realized how difficult they were to evade or block if also done by someone who was technical like he was.

    In the case of Mikhaylin, the throw would probably have been clearer if he would not have already turned during the throw. So, (hidari-)hikkomi-gaeshi.
    Ben Reinhardt
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    Post by Ben Reinhardt Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:01 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:
    Ricebale wrote:It's a very common throw in other belt wrestling sports,  I'll try and find the exact name.

    I've got it in a Sambo book somewhere.

    Edit: my judo name for it would be ricebale throw off a belt grip

    Not  rice bail type throw IMO.

    Indeed not. It's a henka of hikkomi-gaeshi. Hikkomi-gaeshi exists in many different forms. Traditionally it is shown (for its migi form), right hand over the back at the belt, left hand under the uke's right armpit, left hand towards yourself, often grabbing your own lapel. Mikhaylin performs a hidari-version, and instead of going under the armpit of his opponent grabs his opponent's leg. This is one of the many hikkomi-gaeshi henka which Iatskevitch introduced me to in the 1980s. In those days these techniques were new and were creating havoc on the international scene with most opponents being caught by it. Some other international jûdôka, particularly in the light-weight categories adopted these techniques, but it was only when Iatskevitch caught me with it a couple of times during randori, that I realized how difficult they were to evade or block if also done by someone who was technical like he was.

    In the case of Mikhaylin, the throw would probably have been clearer if he would not have already turned during the throw. So, (hidari-)hikkomi-gaeshi.

    I remember the first time I saw a Hikkomi Gaeshi in the US. It was at a shiai at the USOTC, and a female judoka, whose name escapes me at the moment, did it. It was the version where tori takes an ippon seoinage type grip, hooks a foot inside the upper thigh, and falls backwards, not the belt grip (obi tori gaeshi) version).

    For the younger judoka, the rule back then (mid/late 80s) was that you had to have separation between uke and tori in such throws when uke hit the mat, or no score, only was skillful entry to ne waza.

    She used it effectively...I did have a Japanese judo sensei at the time so he was able to explain what it was to me via my hometown sensei. If I could remember her name....Ah! Grace Jividen, I think is it.

    Go to about 5:43 in this video...


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    303d


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    Post by 303d Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:28 am

    Why is this just not tawara gaeshi (rice bag reversal)? It looks to me like thats what he was trying to do anyway and just grabbed the back of the leg in the process. It closer to that than anything else, who cares if he used the leg in the process.

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