Tips for a judoka entering his first BJJ tournament?

Hi there I'm just about to get my nikyu (blue belt in Canada) so I've been at this great sport for about 4 years or so now, competing quite often. My cousin who's a pro MMA fighter has talked me into competing in the Manitoba Open BJJ tournament held in Winnipeg (my hometown).

I was wondering if there are any judoka on this forum who have competed in BJJ who could give me some tips/advice. Like what should I be focusing on at the dojo. Note, I have not trained BJJ a day in my life nor do I intend to in the near future. Also I should say that my groundwork receives lots of praise from my coaches and the high level competitors I train with.

1) Don't let on that you are a judoka. If your opponent knows they'll pull guard (this could happen regardless, especially if you are in a lower weight class.

2) Use a throw that will land you in an osaekomi position; you don't want to be fighting a BJJ'ers guard without training for it.

3) DO NOT OVERTHROW!

4) Learn the rules. IBJJF rules.

5) Be aware that strait footlocks are allowed at whitebelt.

6) Take your time; BJJ is slower paced than judo (especially on the ground). Be methodical.

7) Leg grabs are allowed and are the most common form of throw in BJJ so keep a low stance.

8 ) According to one judo dan grade who is also a BJJ purple belt the aggressive gripping style of judo can really trouble BJJ'ers.

9) Train BJJ. If you like your ground work you'll have a shit load of fun at BJJ.

watch those straight leg locks

be aware that they will put their hands in the mask of the face

get a BJJ gi (borrow one, whatever) for the tournament - nothing says, "I'm a judoka, pull guard on me" quite like a judogi (that goes for wearing a nice rashguard under your gi, too. don't look like a judoka - let your judo be a surprise for them)

what seatea says

Learn guard passes
Don't turtle up
Good luck

Note, I have not trained BJJ a day in my life nor do I intend to in the near future.

"I want you to help me with this but I don't want to do any of the necessary preparation."

From sparring with bjj guys standing and ground I would echo don't overthrow. Just try to resist the temptation to do a huge rollover uchimata and leave them on top, you should be able to throw them, so throw them well, to your advantage. Footsweeps are excellent versus most bjjers, as well as just basic normal throws osoto, saesae hip throws... Some throws such as drop seio could be a tad risky but if you are confident with them go for it. Although if you do ouchi, try not to land in guard.
On groundwork, try not to turtle up and maybe work on guard (both sides) as that is a huge part of bjj.

newazafrank wrote:Hi there I'm just about to get my nikyu (blue belt in Canada) so I've been at this great sport for about 4 years or so now, competing quite often. My cousin who's a pro MMA fighter has talked me into competing in the Manitoba Open BJJ tournament held in Winnipeg (my hometown).

I was wondering if there are any judoka on this forum who have competed in BJJ who could give me some tips/advice. Like what should I be focusing on at the dojo. Note, I have not trained BJJ a day in my life nor do I intend to in the near future. Also I should say that my groundwork receives lots of praise from my coaches and the high level competitors I train with.

Hi Frank,
I have no diect experience of of bjj but I have fought in a of lot of Judo comps, if you want to have any serious chance of winning a fight then get down to a bjj club and at least get the basics.

If you are just doing it for the hell of it then fine, you do not need any bjj training but at least think of the guy's that take there bjj seriously, they may not take kindly to someone coming in and taking the p/ßß. I certainly would not take kindly to an opponent trying to turn my judo contest into a bjj or wrestling bout

atb

sodo

We don't honestly care if he tries. He's just gonna be a speedbump for guys on their way to the semifinals with his attitude.

hedgehogey wrote:We don't honestly care if he tries. He's just gonna be a speedbump for guys on their way to the semifinals with his attitude.

yes, but I am sure there are just as many guys doing bjj as there are in judo that go along just for the chance to fight against decent opponents and don't give a fig about the medals. It's these guys that will be disappointed (i.e. P/ßßed off)


It is a simlar to the debate on the old JF if a (ordinary) sankyu should be taking part in an national or international level competition or in and advanced training group for which he lacks the skill.

atb

sodo

If you want the chance to throw somebody (and also not get double-legged from the outside), as everyone has said, get a BJJ gi and come in with your posture low. You'll most likely lose to someone who pulls closed guard on you (assuming this is a white belt division we're talking about?), so practise getting your knee in to prevent them from doing that.

Get somebody who can apply a straight foot-lock to do it to you so you at least know to tap if you're caught.

If you are just doing it for the hell of it then fine, you do not need any bjj training but at least think of the guy's that take there bjj seriously, they may not take kindly to someone coming in and taking the p/ßß. I certainly would not take kindly to an opponent trying to turn my judo contest into a bjj or wrestling bout

Judo (i.e. throw them directly to a bad position and transition directly to a sub or pin) is a perfectly legal strategy in BJJ competition. The only way people he'd be taking the piss is if he broke the rules.

hedgehogey wrote:We don't honestly care if he tries. He's just gonna be a speedbump for guys on their way to the semifinals with his attitude.

"We"

I knew you were the borg collective

Hi Pointy,

Judo (i.e. throw them directly to a bad position and transition directly to a sub or pin) is a perfectly legal strategy in BJJ competition. The only way people he'd be taking the piss is if he broke the rules.

I consider taking part in a competition above absolute beiginner level where you have basically not prepared yourself and apart from a question on an internet forum do not intend to prepare is taking the p/ss depending on the level of competition and the motivation of the other contestants it "CAN" (not must) deminish their enjoyment of their sport.

Off course my opinion is based on my personal experiences and goals but I am very much against just having ago to see what happens at anything other than low level competition.

atb

sodo

sodo wrote:I consider taking part in a competition above absolute beiginner level where you have basically not prepared yourself and apart from a question on an internet forum do not intend to prepare is taking the p/ss depending on the level of competition and the motivation of the other contestants it "CAN" (not must) deminish their enjoyment of their sport.

Most BJJ players are interested to face (and beat, if they can) people from other styles, it's part of the art's DNA. Only exception is if they're competing in low skill divisions with lots of experience, which in the OP's case I wouldn't worry about.

sodo wrote:Off course my opinion is based on my personal experiences and goals but I am very much against just having ago to see what happens at anything other than low level competition.

Competing in a white belt division, as I assume he's going to do, is low level by definition.

Hi Pointy,

Most BJJ players are interested to face (and beat, if they can) people from other styles, it's part of the art's DNA. Only exception is if they're competing in low skill divisions with lots of experience, which in the OP's case I wouldn't worry about.

If that is ther general attitude of bjj'ers then I agree that ther should be no problem.

Competing in a white belt division, as I assume he's going to do, is low level by definition.

I was under the impression, based on what has been written by bjj'ers on the other forum that because bjj has less belts and a longer time between gradings that the white belt division can be a very broad band.

atb

sodo

sodo wrote:
I was under the impression, based on what has been written by bjj'ers on the other forum that because bjj has less belts and a longer time between gradings that the white belt division can be a very broad band.

Yes, it goes from "knows nothing at all" to "has a slight clue, most of the time". If someone looks consistently like they're actually doing jiu jitsu they are a blue belt.

A coloured-belt Judoka jumping into a white belt division is going to ruffle zero feathers, it is very common. Not sure what else I can say to convince you?

Hi Pointy,

Yes, it goes from "knows nothing at all" to "has a slight clue, most of the time". If someone looks consistently like they're actually doing jiu jitsu they are a blue belt.

sounds reasonable, it was just the way some people presented it on the old jf.

A coloured-belt Judoka jumping into a white belt division is going to ruffle zero feathers, it is very common. Not sure what else I can say to convince you?

No need to convince me, I will not be taking part

If it really is a novice division as you say then that's what they are there for, to have a laugh and enjoy it, I assume that when the level goes up the brown and black belts, some of them would not want to waste their time with some one that had not even bothered to prepare for the comp. others may just want to take and easy win

atb

sodo

sodo wrote:If it really is a novice division as you say then that's what they are there for, to have a laugh and enjoy it, I assume that when the level goes up the brown and black belts, some of them would not want to waste their time with some one that had not even bothered to prepare for the comp. others may just want to take and easy win

The IBJJF won't let you compete at brown or black without verified rank, these days, and many smaller organisers wouldn't let you in either if they have some reason to suspect your grade. There is no culture of "fighting up" skill divisions as there is in Judo.

Competing in a purple belt or up division as a Judo kyu-grade would fairly likely get you hurt, whether your opposition was annoyed with your or not.

Hi Pointy,

The IBJJF won't let you compete at brown or black without verified rank, these days, and many smaller organisers wouldn't let you in either if they have some reason to suspect your grade. There is no culture of "fighting up" skill divisions as there is in Judo.

That's a good system, I wish it "always" worked like that in judo

Competing in a purple belt or up division as a Judo kyu-grade would fairly likely get you hurt, whether your opposition was annoyed with your or not.

It's the same in judo, it's just that hurting people p/sses me off

I had a 130Kg white belt with only a few weeks in judo put up against me in a state level team competition because they thought that it was better to put a heavy novice in than no one at all. since there are not that many real open weight fighters. I put the guy in hospital and I did not enjoy it and I am sure most bjj black belts (or any other grade for that matter) would enjoy hurting someone who should just not be there.

atb

sodo

sodo wrote:

newazafrank wrote:Hi there I'm just about to get my nikyu (blue belt in Canada) so I've been at this great sport for about 4 years or so now, competing quite often. My cousin who's a pro MMA fighter has talked me into competing in the Manitoba Open BJJ tournament held in Winnipeg (my hometown).

I was wondering if there are any judoka on this forum who have competed in BJJ who could give me some tips/advice. Like what should I be focusing on at the dojo. Note, I have not trained BJJ a day in my life nor do I intend to in the near future. Also I should say that my groundwork receives lots of praise from my coaches and the high level competitors I train with.

Hi Frank,
I have no diect experience of of bjj but I have fought in a of lot of Judo comps, if you want to have any serious chance of winning a fight then get down to a bjj club and at least get the basics.

If you are just doing it for the hell of it then fine, you do not need any bjj training but at least think of the guy's that take there bjj seriously, they may not take kindly to someone coming in and taking the p/ßß. I certainly would not take kindly to an opponent trying to turn my judo contest into a bjj or wrestling bout

atb

sodo

I didn't mean to come off as ignorant in any way. I just wanted a chance to test my grappling skills against practitioners of another art. Also I'm not looking to turn this into a "judoka using judo to win at a bjj tournament" I fully intend on plying the rules of their game, and whether I'm victorious or I lose it's all good and fun.

I should have mentioned that I am about 5'10 and weigh around 175 lbs, the "lightweight" division starts from 170 and down to 150-somethingish. Shaving off a few pounds would be no problem (I do realize that cutting weight is a big deal for BJJ competition even at lower levels).

Here you have the most important rules explained.

newazafrank wrote:I should have mentioned that I am about 5'10 and weigh around 175 lbs, the "lightweight" division starts from 170 and down to 150-somethingish. Shaving off a few pounds would be no problem (I do realize that cutting weight is a big deal for BJJ competition even at lower levels).

Is this under IBJJF rules? Don't forget you weigh in wearing the gi in that case, and technically it should be just before you step on the mat for your first match (though at lower levels this will vary a lot).

PointyShinyBurning wrote:

newazafrank wrote:I should have mentioned that I am about 5'10 and weigh around 175 lbs, the "lightweight" division starts from 170 and down to 150-somethingish. Shaving off a few pounds would be no problem (I do realize that cutting weight is a big deal for BJJ competition even at lower levels).

Is this under IBJJF rules? Don't forget you weigh in wearing the gi in that case, and technically it should be just before you step on the mat for your first match (though at lower levels this will vary a lot).

Gracie Humaita Winnipeg is hosting it. The weigh ins are the day before in the evening.

I've seen this play out a few ways (the judoka entering BJJ tournaments). The most common cause is that people overestimate what they know in judo and mentally default on "well if this was a judo tournament I would have won" in spite of the actual outcome. They don't learn anything- they write off things like guards pulls and footlocks as flukes when, if you put yourselves in a vulnerable position like that against a good judo player something would happen to you. Keep an open mind and don't think of it as playing "their" game. You're grappling. If you lose, you're not good at it (judo or otherwise). If you're a kyu grade in top position and can't at least threaten a submission in the white belt division, then shame on you. =P

The other case is the judo bully. They walk into a BJJ tournament and just slam the crap out of people until they land on top, which is relatively easy for a dan grade who works out with wrestlers/BJJ players semi-regularly. This is harder in lightweight advanced divisions, but regardless of how successful the strategy can be that is what's the point of going in with that game plan? If you want to throw white belts, go to a judo tournament (they're cheaper). All local tournaments matter so little (result-wise) that you should go in willing to try new things because, unless you refuse to tap, you have very little to lose. Not every BJJ vs. Judo match is Gracie vs. Kimura.

The third type is the cross-trainer, who, at least at the local level, tries to play BJJ strategy in spite of the fact that there are opportunities for him to cream an opponent standing up. Travis Stevens is an example of this- he pulls guard and uses footlocks/toe holds when he does BJJ! Being an Olympian he could obviously destroy people in tachi waza, but he opts to have the experience of playing like the BJJ people. If you watch some of his videos (facebook), clearly he has learned a lot from the Renzo Gracie school. That said, he's CHOOSING to apply the things he learned. If his life depended on it, he wouldn't pull guard on a BJJ black belt but he does because winning doesn't matter as much as practicing technique.

Decide which guy you want to be! Delusional, close-minded, or educated.

Taiobroshi wrote:Decide which guy you want to be! Delusional, close-minded, or educated.