johan smits wrote:It is a bit late I realize but I only recently saw this interesting topic.
The atemi-waza of Kodokan judo have always interested me but they never made a lot of sense to me, especially the solo exercises.
If efficiency for fighting would have been the most important issue then, at least in my opinion, there were enough sources to take it from. From older schools of jujutsu which have very powerful atemi, to Western boxing and Funakoshi's karate.
Hang on there, Johan. Since you are talking about "solo exercises" I am assuming you are referring to the SZKT. This 'kata' makes use of atemi. HOWEVER, this kata is NOT a shôbu-no-kata. In other words, the atemi in the form as they appear in there are not representations of realistic self-defense sequences. What it is, is an educational exercise, thus gymnastic. Per Kanô's intentions instead of taking the common Scandinavian gymnastics exercises which in terms of health were effective but had no other "real-life practical use", Kanô wanted to develop a replacement for those exercises which in addition to their health effect also could be applied in real life. Each, or most isolated moves could in some situation be applied. For some this is more unlikely then for other. For example, jumping up with both fists aimed above you, or with a fist hitting someone behind your shoulder, are rather unusual in terms of situations that occur in life fights.
In karate though, the atemi are not used in this way but immediately represent fighting situation. Even if frequently exercising karate kata will have have health effects and might contribute to one's education, they were not created for the purpose of health and education but for improving skills.
In judo, there are no kata which include all atemi practised in self-defense situations. Instead, there is a list of vulnerable points, and application of select atemi in self-defense kata such as kime-no-kata, kime-shiki, goshinjutsu ad joshi goshinhô. Now and then we see one of these atemi aimed kata vulnerable point, occur in those kata. The aim is not to learn those sequences as the only defenses in which judo applies atemi. Instead they should be regarded as isolated example, which one should practice in order to become sufficiently skilled so that one can apply that knowledge in similar yet different situations.
johan smits wrote:It is a bit late I realize but I only recently saw this interesting topic.
This has always puzzled me. That is until I learned a lot from the posts by several people who are posting here. As far as I understand it now judo was primarily an educational system with physical-, mental- health and development as most important pillars. Self-defense was another pillar but maybe not the most important.
This line of thinking fits very well into the solo-exercises for atemi. I do not think fighting efficiency was the most important issue here. Physical development was, with training in atemi-waza at second place.
I came to think this way when I did some research about the forerunner of physical therapy in the Netherlands. It was called “heilmassage” and “heilgynastiek” . This would translate as therapeutic massage and therapeutic gymnastics I guess. These systems (which may have originated in Germany) formed at least for a part the base from which physical therapy developed in my country.
One part of this therapy was solo-exercises. Ssomething like chamber-gymnastics, a patient could do by him- or herself at home. Several of these health exercises have a lot in common with the solo-exercises for atemi from Kodokan.
I guess that is a different way to look at atemi but maybe there is something in it.
Happy landings.
If I understand you well you seem to have spontaneously come to a better understanding now. However, the purpose of my post mainly was to point out that whille SZKT contains many judo atemi, it should not be interpreted as these being all of its atemi, nor as the only official modus of how to practise atemi.